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Old 09-29-2018, 09:10 PM   #31
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Default Re: IQ rise and talents

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Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
Actually like the poor dog in Proverbs 26:11, I really think this needs to be printed in black and white in the rules.
  1. IQ slots no longer count for anything other than creating a new character. There is no mention of IQ Slots in the rules.
  2. Somewhere around a total of 36 or 37 stat points, most players will choose to start learning new abilities instead of buying higher stats. I think this implies that prior to 36 or 37 an extra talent or spell comes with each IQ point added.

I'm not arguing that I'm right and your wrong, what I would like is in the printed rules (in the forums doesn't count) something like this:

Experience points can be spent in several ways:
ē To improve your basic stats: ST, DX, or IQ. This will improve all talents and saving rolls associated with that stat, but it become expensive at high levels. Note that adding an extra IQ point does not automatically entitle the figure to another spell or talent.

OR

Experience points can be spent in several ways:
ē To improve your basic stats: ST, DX, or IQ. This will improve all talents and saving rolls associated with that stat, but it become expensive at high levels. Note that adding an extra IQ point does allow the figure to obtain another spell or talent.
At first, I couldn't understand how you guys were confused but now I can. You understand that you can learn new Talents or Skills simply by spending XP. But you thought you could still increase IQ (after character creation) and still get a new Talent or Spell (without any additional XP expenditure). Correct? (BTW, IQ "slots" is my terminalogy for the way Talents and Spells fill-up IQ-points)

I agree that point #1 above (IQ slots no longer count for anything other than creating a new character) probably needs to be explicitly stated somewhere for two reasons: (1)removes ambiguity (2)there will no doubt be some "artifacts" left-over from the "old rules" that won't get caught in editing that will amplify (1). I would totally strike the "Somewhere around..." sentence out of the rules.

Last edited by platimus; 09-29-2018 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 09-29-2018, 09:12 PM   #32
platimus
 
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Default Re: IQ rise and talents

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Wow, I certainly hope the latter is the correct interpretation.
I'm very sure the first is the correct interpretation.
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Old 09-29-2018, 09:21 PM   #33
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Default Re: IQ rise and talents

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I'm very sure the first is the correct interpretation.
If so, I won't be supporting that rule. I can accept XP as an alternative (and perhaps even preferred) method of aquiring new talents, but I can't agree with XP being the ONLY method post-character creation.
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Old 09-29-2018, 09:40 PM   #34
platimus
 
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Default Re: IQ rise and talents

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If so, I won't be supporting that rule. I can accept XP as an alternative (and perhaps even preferred) method of aquiring new talents, but I can't agree with XP being the ONLY method post-character creation.
Have you looked at the XP costs to increase stats? Once your character reaches a 37-point total, it would be cheaper to spend XP directly on the talent/spell.
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Old 09-29-2018, 09:45 PM   #35
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Default Re: IQ rise and talents

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Have you looked at the XP costs to increase stats? Once your character reaches a 37-point total, it would be cheaper to spend XP directly on the talent/spell.
No, I get that. I just can't agree that for the brief window while increasing IQ directly is still viable, the character would not receive the benefits of the IQ increase in the form of added talents or spells.
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Old 09-29-2018, 11:04 PM   #36
Skarg
 
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Default Re: IQ rise and talents

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No, I get that. I just can't agree that for the brief window while increasing IQ directly is still viable, the character would not receive the benefits of the IQ increase in the form of added talents or spells.
Yeah, I'm with you. I thought that was how it still was until reading the comments here today, checked and they are right about the new printing.

I think it's a mistake, because it really makes it a case where 500 XP is the only way to learn even a 1-point talent, something like learning to swim, but most normal people can increase their attributes by +3 for 400 XP... which is not something I see many people (thinking of the NPC population) doing, as if it were that easy, then no one would average 30 points. Now, if people could learn a 1-point talent by just taking the time studying and using a not-yet allocated talent point, and/or by adding 100 XP to represent more experience and then being able to do that, that would seem an appropriate proportion, and be much like old TFT.

It seems like the new rule is the way it is NOT because someone considered this carefully and thought that's the most appropriate rule and there don't seem to be any issues with it, but because they wanted to have as simple rules as possible, and probably didn't think much about it.
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Old 09-30-2018, 01:43 AM   #37
JLV
 
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Default Re: IQ rise and talents

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I hope 3 reminders are enough.
Two apparently weren't.
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Old 09-30-2018, 02:02 AM   #38
Wayne
 
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Default Re: IQ rise and talents

Itís not a matter of the number of reminders.
Itís a matter of whatís written or not written, as I said I donít care which way it goes but it would be better if it was unambiguously stated.
Hence my previous post where I offered two wording suggestions.
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Old 09-30-2018, 08:51 AM   #39
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: IQ rise and talents

I guess I'm glad I raised the topic because there is a lot of uncertainty in people's minds. But the correct approach using the new edition seems very clear to me: After character creation your IQ score has no bearing on how many points worth of talents or spells you know. This seems to me like a sharp enough set of rules that I would feel confident ruling any 'unspent' talent points left over after character creation are lost.
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Old 09-30-2018, 09:05 AM   #40
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Default Re: IQ rise and talents

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
I guess I'm glad I raised the topic because there is a lot of uncertainty in people's minds. But the correct approach using the new edition seems very clear to me: After character creation your IQ score has no bearing on how many points worth of talents or spells you know. This seems to me like a sharp enough set of rules that I would feel confident ruling any 'unspent' talent points left over after character creation are lost.
Which is a bad rule by itself, but get worse when you also eliminate the rules requiring characters to train/study in order to gain new talents or spells (see me other thread).

For example, back in the day it was not uncommon to have 1 or 2 IQ left over after initial character creation that the player was saving for a more 'expensive' talent to be earned after some adventuring... like Fencing. Now you are telling me that those points are lost? No thank you.
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