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Old 10-11-2018, 11:56 AM   #31
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
The main issue I do have with TFT mounted combat has to do with initiative and high MA... there are some tactics that feel gamey and not very realistic if there is a lot of space and time and only one side is mounted.
It looks like no one talked to this aspect that Skarg points out. I have seen this too. A single mounted fighter with enough room (Wizard map often used in outdoor encounters), just zips around (horse MA 24 and Fighter may attack with horse running full speed) and picks off foes. Specially when he wins the initiative and lets the foes move first. It is like Nightcrawler teleporting all over and those on foot are at his whim.

Even mounted vs mounted can get a little weird if one mount is a bit faster.

A mounted warrior should have an advantage, but it should not feel teleporty. A horse moving full speed should have a hard time making tight turns.

How about this: if a creature with MA of 16+ moves over half MA, it may only move to hexes that are one of the three front hexes. This would be true for every hex moved.

-Alan
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:12 PM   #32
hcobb
 
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Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Stab that high and mighty mounted knight with your spear as he gallops up for a sword swing.

But I have a simple fix: Roll 2/DX whenever any figure moves more than 2 hexes in a turn and attempts to change facing by more than one hex after any hex moved. On a failure they don't change facing. On a 12 roll 3/DX or fall down.
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:50 PM   #33
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
It looks like no one talked to this aspect that Skarg points out. I have seen this too. A single mounted fighter with enough room (Wizard map often used in outdoor encounters), just zips around (horse MA 24 and Fighter may attack with horse running full speed) and picks off foes. Specially when he wins the initiative and lets the foes move first. It is like Nightcrawler teleporting all over and those on foot are at his whim.

Even mounted vs mounted can get a little weird if one mount is a bit faster.

A mounted warrior should have an advantage, but it should not feel teleporty. A horse moving full speed should have a hard time making tight turns.

How about this: if a creature with MA of 16+ moves over half MA, it may only move to hexes that are one of the three front hexes. This would be true for every hex moved.

-Alan
I'm probably doing it wrong but that would still allow a horse to do a 180 with 3 MA. Surely no one simply let's a horse do a 180 in the 2 hexes he previously occupied (which would cost 1 or 2 MA)???

Surely no one lets a 1-hex figure do a 180 (or even 120) in his current hex and keep moving???

It would seem better to me to say that movement stops (for anyone) when their facing changes by more than 60 degrees (more than one side of a hex) from their starting facing.

Last edited by platimus; 10-11-2018 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:24 PM   #34
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
It looks like no one talked to this aspect that Skarg points out. I have seen this too. A single mounted fighter with enough room (Wizard map often used in outdoor encounters), just zips around (horse MA 24 and Fighter may attack with horse running full speed) and picks off foes. Specially when he wins the initiative and lets the foes move first. It is like Nightcrawler teleporting all over and those on foot are at his whim.

Even mounted vs mounted can get a little weird if one mount is a bit faster.

A mounted warrior should have an advantage, but it should not feel teleporty. A horse moving full speed should have a hard time making tight turns.

How about this: if a creature with MA of 16+ moves over half MA, it may only move to hexes that are one of the three front hexes. This would be true for every hex moved.

-Alan
Yes, that would help. I would probably attempt an easy version of what GURPS does (adding turning circles for fast movers, possibly even adding speed change limits).

There are various ways to do that.

If we want to avoid applying it to fast runners too (?), we might want to specify it only applies to mounted and flying movement.

A problem with starting the effects at MA 15+ (which I assume you did to avoid affecting Elves with Running), is that mounts can move full MA and their riders can still attack (compared to normal fighters who can only move 1/2 MA and attack), so though I haven't playtested it yet, I'd expect to want limits to kick in around MA 6 or 7 - the point where someone in no armor and running is, and the point where you can run around someone facing you two hexes away to get to their rear, if you can move freely.

* To move your mount MA 7+, you must say you are going to do so, and then move only into your front hexes, and you may only change facing by 1 hexside every 2 hexes you move. At least every other hex you move must be directly ahead into your center front hex.

* To move MA 9+, as above, and you may only change facing every 3 hexes you move.

* To move MA 11+, as above, and you may only change facing every 4 hexes you move.

And/or something like:

* If you move 1/2 MA to 3/4 your MA, you can only change facing up to 2 hexsides per turn.

* If you move 3/4 your MA or more, you can only change facing one hexside per turn.

Those numbers are coming from a quick adaptation from GURPS Basic turning circles. What actual values would work best want some playtesting I have not done yet.

Idea being you can't just zoom tightly behind opponents' front hexes to hit them in the side and rear, and if you're going really fast you need to mainly be moving the same direction or turning slightly, not doing circles and zigzags.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:47 PM   #35
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Yes, that would help. I would probably attempt an easy version of what GURPS does (adding turning circles for fast movers, possibly even adding speed change limits).

There are various ways to do that.

If we want to avoid applying it to fast runners too (?), we might want to specify it only applies to mounted and flying movement.

A problem with starting the effects at MA 15+ (which I assume you did to avoid affecting Elves with Running), is that mounts can move full MA and their riders can still attack (compared to normal fighters who can only move 1/2 MA and attack), so though I haven't playtested it yet, I'd expect to want limits to kick in around MA 6 or 7 - the point where someone in no armor and running is, and the point where you can run around someone facing you two hexes away to get to their rear, if you can move freely.

* To move your mount MA 7+, you must say you are going to do so, and then move only into your front hexes, and you may only change facing by 1 hexside every 2 hexes you move. At least every other hex you move must be directly ahead into your center front hex.

* To move MA 9+, as above, and you may only change facing every 3 hexes you move.

* To move MA 11+, as above, and you may only change facing every 4 hexes you move.

And/or something like:

* If you move 1/2 MA to 3/4 your MA, you can only change facing up to 2 hexsides per turn.

* If you move 3/4 your MA or more, you can only change facing one hexside per turn.

Those numbers are coming from a quick adaptation from GURPS Basic turning circles. What actual values would work best want some playtesting I have not done yet.

Idea being you can't just zoom tightly behind opponents' front hexes to hit them in the side and rear, and if you're going really fast you need to mainly be moving the same direction or turning slightly, not doing circles and zigzags.
Or just say, "A figure's movement stops if its facing changes by more than 60 degrees from the start of movement."

Last edited by platimus; 10-11-2018 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 10-11-2018, 04:31 PM   #36
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

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Originally Posted by platimus View Post
Or just say, "A figure's movement stops if its facing changes by more than 60 degrees from the start of movement."
Any figure, for any MA? What do you mean?
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Old 10-11-2018, 04:52 PM   #37
platimus
 
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Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Any figure, for any MA? What do you mean?
Yes. Any figure. Any MA. 60 may be too drastic though. I keep waffling between 60 and 120 degrees. If you turn more that 60 degrees (120+), you're essentially doubling-back. Like you were headed North, you turn 120 to the left and now you're headed South(West). If you turn on your heels, you've essentially stopped to change directions. If you do it in a large arc, that eats up your MA anyway. If you do it in a small arc, that's still going to slow you down.
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Old 10-11-2018, 04:56 PM   #38
Skarg
 
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Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

So say someone is only planning on moving 3 hexes, on foot. Do you let them start in any direction, then move into front hexes but only chance facing by 1 hexside, then after they stop change facing to any direction?
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Old 10-11-2018, 05:10 PM   #39
hcobb
 
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Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

A figure running at MA 10 in a one-hex diameter circle is pulling 40% of one G. Just how good is their footing?

Divide a figure's intended movement in hexes by 3 and round down. This is how many dice they need to roll against DX to turn 60 degrees after entering each hex or fall down. For every hex they move directly forwards subtract one die from the roll.
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Last edited by hcobb; 10-11-2018 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 10-11-2018, 05:12 PM   #40
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
So say someone is only planning on moving 3 hexes, on foot. Do you let them start in any direction, then move into front hexes but only chance facing by 1 hexside, then after they stop change facing to any direction?
For a 1-hex figure, yes, after they stop, at the end of their movement, they can face any direction they want.

Not for multi-hex creatures though. Multi-hex creatures can't change facing and still occupy the same hexes. For example, the horse. If it spins on it's front legs, it's rear-end is essentially shifting around the front. I consider each of those shifts of the rear-end to cost 1 MA. This is why I said earlier that a horse burns up 3 MA to do a 180. His rear-end (or front-end if he pivots from the rear) has to shift 3 times to turn 180.
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