01-02-2021, 10:53 AM | #71 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: Universal Genetic Upgrade [Bio-Tech]
We share a lot of genes related to the brain with lab rats, and we have a surprising amount of psychological overlap (mammals are mammals, so we share 99% of the genes related to the development of the brain with lab rats). In general though, we are looking at improvements in intelligence coming from overall improvements in health, as the genetic foundations of intelligence seem to come from around 3,000 genes that govern everything from cell growth to memory. Basically, people who are more intelligent generally have better versions of those 3,000 genes, which sometimes also improves their general health, depending on which combination of better genes they have and which genes have been expressed during their lives.
This is why you have high intelligence can manifest with any combination of characteristics, as it is the combination of genetic foundation and genetic expression. Disease, malnutrition, pollution, etc. may turn off the expression of some genes and turn on the expression of other genes, meaning that a person with a genetic foundation that would average IQ 120 can easily range from IQ 80 to IQ 140, and this is before we add in factors like brain trauma and educatiob. Similar factors can have more modest effects on the intelligence of lab rats, so we can determine which genes lead to a healthy individual. |
01-02-2021, 12:20 PM | #72 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Re: Universal Genetic Upgrade [Bio-Tech]
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Saying that Rats share 99% of the genes is perhaps less useful a metric to use - especially when Bonaboes (primates) are deemed to be the closest Genetic relative to Humans. Their Genetic structure is 99% compatable with Humans. So, which is it? Rats or Primates are the closest genetic relative? In all, it would be interesting to see if Rats can be genetically altered to have Human eyes simply by taking out their "DNA coding" and replacing it iwth Human coding for human eyes. I largely suspect that the answer will be no. Somewhere in the almost 2 billion base pair differences between humanity and rats - plus the two chromosomes difference, Rats are not 99% interchangeable with humans. |
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01-02-2021, 12:42 PM | #73 | |
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oz
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Re: Universal Genetic Upgrade [Bio-Tech]
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01-02-2021, 01:10 PM | #74 | ||
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Houston, TX
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Re: Universal Genetic Upgrade [Bio-Tech]
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All this assumes, of course, that you're following the limits of real scientific methodology rather than indulging in flights of space opera. That's absolutely fine too, of course; just don’t pretend that the latter is the former. Quote:
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01-02-2021, 01:22 PM | #75 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: Universal Genetic Upgrade [Bio-Tech]
99% of the genes (rats versus humans) is different than 99% of the working DNA (chimps versus humans). Around 50% of human (as well as chimp and rat) DNA is spacing, which, alomg with the genes and the placement of the genes, is part of the instructions to make RNA, which in turn makes proteins. Thus a lot of the difference in genetic expression, basically the building of proteins, exists in the spacing between genes and the placement of the genes within the genome as well as the individual genes.
To make an analogy, each genetic expression is a bit like a song. Each gene is equivalent to an individual note/words, each spacing is the equivalent to the timing, and each placement of the genes being equivalent to the placement of the notes/words. If done correct, you get music. Minor changes will change the nature of the song (usually in a bad way) while major changes will produce trash. Just like notes and words are used in multiple songs though, animal genes are used in multiple genetic expressions, as proteins blueprints from RNA strands involving using dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of the same genes. The genes for basic cytoskeleton formation may be used in the expression of intelligence, the ability to smell cyanide, and the development of fast twitch muscles (these are hypothetical examples, as genes in animals are almost never used for one thing). Plants have many more genes, but plant genes tend to be much more specific in their applications. |
01-02-2021, 02:19 PM | #76 | |
Ceci n'est pas une tag.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vancouver, WA (Portland Metro)
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Re: Universal Genetic Upgrade [Bio-Tech]
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You're mentioning the 99% match between chimps/bonobos and humans. That includes junk genes. I think most lifeforms on Earth share 90%+ of genes with humans (i.e., the genes they have will be found in humans), because a LOT of those are junk genes.
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01-02-2021, 02:51 PM | #77 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Universal Genetic Upgrade [Bio-Tech]
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If you're bioengineering a genetic upgrade, that's not really a problem. You can go in and pick the versions you want for both features regardless of how meiosis fails to do so. Of course, it is entirely possible for the same genetic feature to have both beneficial and deleterious effects, such that you have to take it or leave it as a package deal. (Assuming you don't have the ability to invent a whole new allele to give you novel third option, which is a much harder scientific problem.) I'd definitely question the claim that of an allele that produces both heightened intelligence and a obtrusive genetic defect though - it's not impossible, but there's a really blatant tendency to latch onto any possible hypothesis that supports the idea that there are important tradeoffs in play. Quote:
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01-02-2021, 03:21 PM | #78 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: Universal Genetic Upgrade [Bio-Tech]
And there is nothing to prevent a government from doing both, as the wealth level at TL9+ would allow such a diversity of solutions. Improving nature and nurture, through genetic engineering and proper regulation, would probably really be the best solution.
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01-02-2021, 03:51 PM | #79 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Houston, TX
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Re: Universal Genetic Upgrade [Bio-Tech]
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It’s a hot steaming mess, such that I suspect it's actually still easier to tell people they can't refill their legally-limited-size soda cups.
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01-03-2021, 06:05 AM | #80 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Universal Genetic Upgrade [Bio-Tech]
Sorta, yeah. Geneticists measure this as the centimorgan. The physical distance is the biggest component, but the sequence of the intervening “junk” DNA is also significant, with different sequences being more or less robust against the necessary breakage than others.
This doesn’t matter when you’re adding in/replacing genes in a gamete/zygote, but could be important when your “improved” humans start breeding. Quote:
He or she may not be entirely incorrect in such a view, there are a lot of folks who have serious hang ups about being told what they can and cannot do (reference: the last few months). Still, I suspect the opposition to human genetic modification would be stronger.
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