The Future of the DFRPG

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Wonazer

Did you have to get permission for this project?

Yes, definitely.

I'm just curious what is preventing others from doing something similar for the rest of the GURPS ecosphere -- is DFRPG licensed differently to allow something like your project?

I can't speak to other licenses. For my part, I sent a short, simple note asking for permission, including the PDF of the project (Lost Hall of Tyr) I'd be converting and stating what I'd do differently for the DFRPG.

It is probably not insignificant that:

• I'd run two prior Kickstarters and delivered them on time and on budget, showing I have a commitment to meeting my promises and a demonstrated ability to do so
• I'd provided a complete PDF of the source material, which included substantial evidence of in-hand art assets, layout, and ability to generate a well-crafted PDF and book on my own
• I've written a book for SJGames
• I've led three or four playtests for SJGames, and participated in many more
• I've written 13 Pyramid articles for SJGames
• I run the GURPSDay blog rollup and have been a proponent of the system for years

In any case, anyone can ASK. But like applying for any job: be professional, be on-point, be concise, and ideally show that you've already done the job you're asking for.

[Kromm]

Every third-party product based on SJ Games' intellectual property is licensed in the same way: An established publisher with some record of past success approaches SJ Games and negotiates a license in private. That's how Amarillo Design Bureau got permission for GURPS Prime Directive, how Eden Studios got permission for GURPS Conspiracy X, and how Gaming Ballistic got permission for Hall of Judgment.

There's no "open license." We handle all licensing on a case-by-case basis, considering the merits of the would-be publisher and the proposed product.

We are aggressive about pursuing those who exploit our intellectual property without a license. That is what prevents people from just deciding to do so without our permission.

[Wonazer]

In regards to the future of DFRPG -- and GURPS in general -- has something similar to the Dungeon Master's Guild marketplace ever been considered?

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

More racial templates?

Like, an entire PDF that's nothing but PC-ready (talking) animal templates, maybe with conversions to anthropomorphics.

Because both are common things in fantasy.

Then maybe a supplement for the supplement for playing animalistic monster characters (i.e. griffins).

[oma]

For my experience. I have 3 kids, (from pre-teen to age 15), work a lot and have other hobbies.

I need adventures built, ready to go, that do not require input from me. Once I have that, I can then tinker as we play, and add this and that if I want to. The key is, though, if I were really busy and game night comes around, I can just go with what is in the book and we'll have a good session.

Adventure paths are AWESOME for this. GURPS is my favorite game system by far, yet I almost never play it as my online VTT gaming is not supported by SJ games at all that I can see.

I do not buy GURPS products any longer as they are not relevant to the games I am currently playing. I keep thinking about starting an X or Y GURPS game, and then reality sets in as I realize I do VTT gaming and it would be a huge chore as I have to create literally EVERYTHING in order to game.

Now if the target market is all out of work or college aged kids with no money and lots of creative time on their hands, I get it, make stuff that appeals to them. That's just not me. Time is more valuable to me than money in my life. So I game with Pathfinder and Dungeons & Dragons 5E. These two games are well supported on the VTT Roll20 site I use and I don't have to worry about creating something to play a nights game.

I love altering and adding things when I have time and it keeps adventures fresh for my players even when they have played that adventure before. It's just not required to play when I have little time.

The market I am in requires excellent adventures, preferably long arcs like the adventure paths from Pathfinder that are somewhat sandbox in that we have lots to do but it's not just A then B then C. I truly enjoy the Vault of Larin Karr and the Shattered Gates of Slaughterguard because they allow me to have the whole world there. I get to enjoy reading it, and altering it as I have time, and when I don't, it plays perfectly as a sandbox world.

I am currently running Princes of the Apocalypse and one player of mine GM'd that adventure before and yet, he's finding it has a lot of twists and turns he did not expect. He is enjoying it as he does not really know what is coming, even though the major adventure arc is still there.

In closing,

For me, I need VTT support and EXCELLENT sandbox adventures/campaign arcs that I can use with minimal input. That would bring me fully back to GURPS, which would then cause me to start spending money on it again.

I'm not a huge spender but I am regular. I spend around $50-100/month average on gaming things, mostly to do now with VTT products as that is what I use.

[lordabdul]

Originally Posted by oma

I need adventures built, ready to go, that do not require input from me (....) Adventure paths are AWESOME for this.

Yeah, I would love if SJG was releasing adventure-path-ish books for every setting they have. I actually did a comparison a while ago of the percentage of sourcebooks vs. adventures and it showed a dramatic gap between SJG's settings and popular settings like Golarion.

It seems that (someone tell me if I'm wrong):

1) SJG has historically been more interested in releasing "building blocks" that cater to GMs who actively want to do their own thing, than to release "ready to go" material for newbie/busy/lazy/etc GMs. Although lately there's been a bit of re-adjustment on that with more DF books providing immediately useful stuff like Caverntown, which I hope is the beginning of a new trend.

2) AFAICT from what I've read on the forums, SJG has a rather laid back approach to building a product line. By that I mean that instead of contracting out writers to do something specific (like, say, adventure books), they instead wait to receive book proposals that they then evaluate and approve. I believe this might create a bit of a vicious circle, where writers willing to write an adventure or micro sandbox setting probably have more incentive (independently of market share) to do it for a system that has a reputation of having such things in their line up (DnD, PF, 13th Age, Numenara, any Cthulhu game, etc.), and those who want to write "resource" books also do so for a system that has such a reputation (which is why that's most of what we have in GURPS... which is awesome, that's why we love GURPS).

It seems like SJG would need to "kickstart" (in the "get it going" sense, not necessarily the "crowdfunding" sense :) ) such product lines by contracting out writers themselves, but I'm probably missing something since that's obviously not what they've been doing after DFRPG was released.

[Refplace]

[QUOTE=lordabdul;2186195]

It seems that (someone tell me if I'm wrong):

1) SJG has historically been more interested in releasing "building blocks" that cater to GMs who actively want to do their own thing, than to release "ready to go" material for newbie/busy/lazy/etc GMs. Although lately there's been a bit of re-adjustment on that with more DF books providing immediately useful stuff like Caverntown, which I hope is the beginning of a new trend.

Originally Posted by lordabdul

It seems that (someone tell me if I'm wrong):

1) SJG has historically been more interested in releasing "building blocks" that cater to GMs who actively want to do their own thing, than to release "ready to go" material for newbie/busy/lazy/etc GMs. Although lately there's been a bit of re-adjustment on that with more DF books providing immediately useful stuff like Caverntown, which I hope is the beginning of a new trend.

Adventures are on the wishlist and have been for as long as I remember.
Also things like LoadOuts fit in the ready to go category,

Originally Posted by lordabdul

2) AFAICT from what I've read on the forums, SJG has a rather laid back approach to building a product line. By that I mean that instead of contracting out writers to do something specific (like, say, adventure books), they instead wait to receive book proposals that they then evaluate and approve.
It seems like SJG would need to "kickstart" (in the "get it going" sense, not necessarily the "crowdfunding" sense :) ) such product lines by contracting out writers themselves, but I'm probably missing something since that's obviously not what they've been doing after DFRPG was released.

Authors write what they are interested in, there is not enough money to write things they have no desire to write and it would likely be an uninspired product if they did.
Since the author has to be familiar with GURPS and a good publishing record (You might take a chance on a newbie with a hot proposal, you certainly would not seek out an unpublished author) this limits your pool to those who are capable and interested in specific projects.
And adventures are very hard to write, especially good ones.
You have to deal with mapping, monster stats, balancing towards an unknown group (And you dont have levels like D&D knockoffs), and create and express an interesting idea to hook a buyer.
As a GM writing an adventure for my players is much easier. I can improvise and adapt to the parties actions rather than have to plan ahead for everything. I also know the party makeup so balancing not just against their character sheets but anticipating player decisions.
And finally we have market share, an author knows he will get paid more if its an already popular setting than an unpopular one.

When people complain about a lack of adventures they typically address the company. I think if you really want more adventures you have to address the authors.
Dont say GURPS would be more popular if it had adventures. Dont be generic in your requests. Instead try to inspire an author by giving them ideas or specific targets that if they hit, you would buy the product.
Even then they have to have enough interest, time and ability to write what you happen to want.
And obviously there will be far more interested in something different.

[scc]

The thing is that before you can have adventures you really need a SETTING and SJ Games has been really reluctant to create one for GURPS. Their biggest attempt was Transhuman Space which has to contend with the twin problems of being released over an edition change and being the sort of setting that doesn't attract a lot of attention.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by scc

The thing is that before you can have adventures you really need a SETTING and SJ Games has been really reluctant to create one for GURPS. Their biggest attempt was Transhuman Space which has to contend with the twin problems of being released over an edition change and being the sort of setting that doesn't attract a lot of attention.

Perhaps because despite so many GURPS settings people keep saying it does not have any?
That would certainly make me reluctant.
As my list shows GURPS Fourth Edition has at least 10 published original settings, 6 licensed ones; and 47 for Third Edition, most of which would require very little work to convert to Fourth Edition.
I think that is more than any other system.

[Gollum]

I think that the problem with GURPS settings is exactly the same than with GURPS adventures: they do exist, right, but they are just "one shots". You can play one game or two, at best, and then, you've got again a lot of work to do by yourself if you want to go on playing. Brief, the target is always the same: GMs who have time enough to build their own stuff.

The problem of balancing the adventure to the PCs is a wrong one, in my humble opinion. No published adventure, no matter the game, is balanced for a precise group of PCs. Even D&D/Pathfinder adventure authors cannot do it. They are at most balanced for character levels 1 to 3, for instance, but there is a huge difference between level 1 and level 3 characters. And it doesn't prevent those adventures to sell well. It's part of the GM role to balance the adventure he buys to his precise PCs. Only him can do it, and it's easy to do. At least, much more easy than designing a whole adventure. That is what I do and it works very well. The problem is that I buy more products by another publisher than by SJG. Which is a pitty, because, most often, I play those adventures with GURPS rules.

Now, I think that DFRPG will change that and I am very happy! What we need for it is more adventures and more world descriptions, to have at last the opportunity to play a GURPS campaign (not just a one shot) without having to buy it by another publisher - and to do all the stat conversions.