Self Destruct Optional Rule?

[Dave Crowell]

Self Destruct rule clarification Infantry and CP at 5 hexes unaffected.

The self destruct rule was included as an optional rule as recently as the 2000 Ogre: Deluxe edition.

It is definitely a game changer.

[ColBosch]

Originally Posted by pzmcgwire

No need to pull anything from storage.

Oh, they're not in storage. I am using my MicroGames as art pieces along the top of one wall. ;)

[TheAmishStig]

Originally Posted by pzmcgwire

Regarding the ridges, I wonder how it was determined what hexsides would have ridges on them. I suppose the ridges favor the Ogre by limiting the movement of the defending units.

I believe the craters are results of cruise missile strikes. Are the ridges also fallout from the cruise missiles?

Throw that in the comments over on the Facebook post for today's Q&A with Steve. I bet Hunter could rope him into going into more detail.

[ColBosch]

Originally Posted by TheAmishStig

Throw that in the comments over on the Facebook post for today's Q&A with Steve. I bet Hunter could rope him into going into more detail.

Just don't be surprised if the answer is "I dunno, it was random." :D

[Steve Jackson]

The intent is that the ridges were also the result of missile strikes - maybe earlier and partly covered, maybe just not straight vertical explosions. The original layout was "what looked good," modified in playtest until there was no perfect path for the Ogre to follow and no area too impossibily blocked to defenders.

[dwalend]

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

The intent is that the ridges were also the result of missile strikes - maybe earlier and partly covered, maybe just not straight vertical explosions. The original layout was "what looked good," modified in playtest until there was no perfect path for the Ogre to follow and no area too impossibily blocked to defenders.

They do work well - the defenders get to choose to attack early in clear ground, where GEVs especially have an advantage, or rally forces and fight in ridges and craters where the ogre gets an advantage.

How about that ridge on the north row of the map around column 8? I haven't figured out a good way to use it for anything yet.

[ianargent]

6.07 Combining attacks on Ogre tread units is not permitted. This is to solve the gripe, "What if somebody puts 20 attack strength points into one roll against the treads, and hits?" My gut response is "Well, he blows up 20 tread units – so what?" However, it makes it more interesting if each unit firing at treads must do so separately – part of the appeal of the game, to me, is that you have to make a whole bunch of die rolls. The odds tend to even out and the better tactician wins.

This is where the statistician in me who's read the Playing The Odds In Ogre article in the Ogre Book cringes.

Even if you COULD combine attacks against treads, why would you want to? That's Not How Things Work!

[dwalend]

Originally Posted by ianargent

Even if you COULD combine attacks against treads, why would you want to? That's Not How Things Work!

You'd want to in some fairly rarified circumstances. When an ogre is close to dropping to a slower movement, and the defenders are a bit short of firepower then it'd be better to have a one-in-three chance of slowing the ogre than to just attrit the treads. The ogre would be one hex further from its objective.

A painful example: the ogre is two hexes from the CP, at M1, with some AP guns and just 7 treads. You have two surviving GEVs and one MSL. If you combine attacks you have a 1/3 chance of winning. But you can't combine attacks, so you have to make all three shots to stop the ogre in time. You have a 1/27 chance of saving the CP.

I think Steve's larger point about tactics is that you should avoid letting the ogre get that close.

[woodchuck]

Originally Posted by ianargent

Even if you COULD combine attacks against treads, why would you want to? That's Not How Things Work!

It's an "all or nothing" sort of gamble, it's a popular thing with some gamers. And on the rare occasion when it works it can be quite amusing, I've been on the receiving end of this tactic.

[TheAmishStig]

Originally Posted by dwalend

You'd want to in some fairly rarified circumstances. When an ogre is close to dropping to a slower movement, and the defenders are a bit short of firepower then it'd be better to have a one-in-three chance of slowing the ogre than to just attrit the treads. The ogre would be one hex further from its objective.

A painful example: the ogre is two hexes from the CP, at M1, with some AP guns and just 7 treads. You have two surviving GEVs and one MSL. If you combine attacks you have a 1/3 chance of winning. But you can't combine attacks, so you have to make all three shots to stop the ogre in time. You have a 1/27 chance of saving the CP.

Exactly what I was going to say, but said more succinctly and more clearly than I was able to. I have a number of friends who would absolutely "go big or go home" if put into a last-stand situation like that, and tell stories about that specific game for years to come no matter what the outcome was.

Henry's math is great from a situation-agnostic perspective of "this is how to maximize your firepower turn in and turn out", but doesn't really account for situational imperatives...the you MUST achieve X this turn or the entire tide of the game turns type stuff, where tactics have to adapt on the fly in response to a hot or cold streak on the dice.

Originally Posted by dwalend

I think Steve's larger point about tactics is that you should avoid letting the ogre get that close.

Agreed. I do like the rules as they sit...specifically because they reward playing smart over the course of the entire game rather than dumb luck on a single make-or-break roll. If the game hinged on dumb luck to the point a typical game could be decided by it and it alone, Ogre wouldn't be half as fun as it is.