[Powers] Making Affliction- and DoT/Cyclic-based characters viable and effective

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

It is a personal observation of mine that building characters based on Affliction and 'DoT' (i.e. Cyclic) attacks is largely a matter of flavour, with greatly reduced efficiency. Interesting 'debuff' Afflictions are not all that useful compared to a low-cost Stunning one, or a rapid-firing Paralyzing/Sleeping/Heart-attacking one. Cyclic attacks at combat-usable rates are so expensive that it is often better to just dump more damage all at once through either high skill and RoF, or just bigger initial damage. The effect is even more pronounced with abilities discounted below 100% cost before adding Cyclic.

Is the 'afflictor' a purely fluffy kind of character, or is there a way to make interesting affliction cost-reasonable?

Thanks in advance!

[cccwebs]

I'm really not sure that Cyclic is appropriate for Affliction, but if the GM is going to allow it then it would become a very powerful combination. Unlike Innate Attack, Affliction already has a duration that the effects remain for. Affliction also doesn't "stack" unless modified with Cumulative. Except for stunning/coma/heart attack, afflictions normally last for 1 minute per margin of roll. This sort of negates the need for a fast cyclic attack. As for debuffs, any affliction that can periodically attempt to improve the debuff it applies should be very expensive, especially if it can repeat itself fast enough to be effective in combat.

[naloth]

I'm also having trouble seeing where this would be a good mechanic for a combat ability.

Outside of combat I can see a few uses. Perhaps a curse that turns you into something a few times over a few days? Cyclic wouldn't be expensive here (basically 1 point for additional day).

EDIT: Is this a "let's throw modifiers together and see what happens" or a "I can't build this power cost effectively"? An example would help. Chances are if it's the latter there's just way that fits better in the system.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Greetings, all!

It is a personal observation of mine that building characters based on Affliction and 'DoT' (i.e. Cyclic) attacks is largely a matter of flavour, with greatly reduced efficiency. Interesting 'debuff' Afflictions are not all that useful compared to a low-cost Stunning one, or a rapid-firing Paralyzing/Sleeping/Heart-attacking one. Cyclic attacks at combat-usable rates are so expensive that it is often better to just dump more damage all at once through either high skill and RoF, or just bigger initial damage. The effect is even more pronounced with abilities discounted below 100% cost before adding Cyclic.

Is the 'afflictor' a purely fluffy kind of character, or is there a way to make interesting affliction cost-reasonable?

Thanks in advance!

Debufers/DoTers a la WoW's Warlock, Diablo II's Necromancer,... are nearly always underpowered. Such effects can be really broken in extremely specific circumstances, and the designers balance them around that. However, the crux of the archetype is that their modus operandi is SLOW, and when fights get decided very quickly, it's a MAJOR disadvantage. These issues are not limited to videogames, but plague RPGs too.

In GURPS, particularly, affliction is way too expensive, if you buy more than one level. Cyclic innate attacks bypass the need to hit again, so you can all out defend, and still damage your foe. Now, what use do you get out of these abilities, when foes last two rounds?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

In GURPS, particularly, affliction is way too expensive, if you buy more than one level.

Kromm has suggested that additional levels of Affliction be repriced at 2/level. This makes a lot of sense to me, and I'll likely do so if it becomes an issue.

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Kromm has suggested that additional levels of Affliction be repriced at 2/level. This makes a lot of sense to me, and I'll likely do so if it becomes an issue.

Can you link to a quote? I'd really like to see that. That would make my day. Or just PM the link to me if you don't want to share. ;-)

For the rest of the thread:
I use a lot of Small-Piercing attacks with Side Effect and No Wounding for my supers-debuffers. Give the target an incapacatating condition, temp disadvantage or negated advantage and they're de-buffed. Works well. It's much, much more useful than an affliction.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

Can you link to a quote? I'd really like to see that. That would make my day. Or just PM the link to me if you don't want to share. ;-)

For the rest of the thread:
I use a lot of Small-Piercing attacks with Side Effect and No Wounding for my supers-debuffers. Give the target an incapacatating condition, temp disadvantage or negated advantage and they're de-buffed. Works well. It's much, much more useful than an affliction.

This is probably the post he's referring to:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...7&postcount=10

[Anthony]

Many GURPS advantages are priced based on how they could be used by a character deliberately using them in an efficient/optimized manner. While a 'set someone on fire' attack (burning attack 1d, 5 cycles of 1s +400%; 25) is less effective than a 5d burning attack (25), a lingering 'nerve gas cloud' (toxic attack 1d, area effect (8 hexes, +150%), Blood Agent (+150%), 5 cycles of 1s +400%; 32) is quite reasonable compared to a prompt version (toxic attack 2d, area effect (8 hexes), blood agent; 32).

This is in part because of how advantage stacking works, and in part because a DoT that ignores armor is much better than one that doesn't.

[PK]

And, to be clear, Kromm said that he'd try out a 10/+2 cost and see how it played out. In other words, this is not a pre-playtested solution, so no warranty is given, express or implied. :)

Personally, I think 10/+2 is rather low -- consider the following build: Affliction 18 (Contact Agent, -30%; Inaccurate 2, -10%; PM, -10%; Reduced Range 1/10, -30%) [9]. For 9 points, you have a short-ranged beam that is basically guaranteed to one-shot an opponent if it hits exposed skin. He has to roll against HT-17 (so basically, only succeeding on a 3 or 4) to avoid being stunned, and gets a HT-17 roll each turn to recover. Under the existing rules, this build costs 36 points, which is a bit more fair.

The trouble is that Affliction only becomes insanely overpriced when you slap a powerful effect on it (e.g., Heart Attack, Unconsciousness, most Advantages). I think it'd make more sense to just define certain enhancements as only applying to the first level. So if you have Affliction (Heart Attack), it becomes a 40/+10 ability, plus any other modifiers that you add.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Personally, I think 10/+2 is rather low

If you eliminate the HT penalty for recovery from stunning, or make it a separate advantage, it's more reasonable.