Need advice designing a fair ultra tech gun.

[Jaware]

Originally Posted by Juca

Well, you will not find something exactly like that because there is no realistic ammo than can withstand a bullet-like impact and still have a working communicator to be triggered, but, if you still like something like that, I think that the gyroc carbine is a good starting point, or even the Splat Gun. You just need to stat the explosion can be triggered wireless at X meters/km, and decide if it can be removed from the body before the explosion, and what damage it would do in this case (tip: use the same rules as for stuck swinging melee attacks)

Yup. That's exactly what I did to.

[Jaware]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Certainly as GM you can make up armor-piercing fragmentation if you want to. I don't think it makes any sense at all as an actual thing, nor is it present in any GURPS book I'm aware of, but it's trivial enough to put into the game if you're set on it.

I'm not sure that HEAT/HEMP would be any good for punching boreholes in rock to plant charges. It'll punch holes, sure, but it does so by punching a fluid, very fast stream of metal in. When shot into a rock wall where it can't punch out the far side, I'd expect the hole to be substantially blocked with the penetrator material.

Also, 3d(2) isn't going to get you far into rock. 6d of penetration is going to give you maybe a couple inches into stone. Not more, and possibly rather less since penetrating into a surface with unlimited rock behind it is likely harder than penetrating through a barrier.

I was looking to have the original tool designed to pierce into a rock face, 6 or 8 inches, then explode the material out where it could be gathered. It would make sense for not in a mine, but instead outside maybe trying to find another pocket of what's being mined. Or something of that nature.

As for the damage, that kind of penetrating power would definitely punch a hole through the enemies they would target with it. So it would make sense to me that someone smart would tweak it not to punch so hard, as to ensure the charge was placed where it needed to be.

The particular place where they are at is An icy wasteland that has large deposited of hyper dense metal. Making it worth quite a lot in this setting. Since the stuff is heavily regulated and used to make projectiles for ships and soldiers. It would be fairly easy to acquire some and Frankenstein some high damage Shrapnal since the enemies are fairly squishy to cutting damage.

Biggest issue will be when to use it. Since a fair amount of the combat is done in cramped corridors and winding tunnels etc. it would be fairly easy to accidentally it to close to you and wind up looking like hamburger meat.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Jaware

I forgot to say that the armor was flexible, sorry it was late last night and I was writing a 4 page research paper for school hahaha.

So, 30/15*, with DR 30 against piercing-class and cutting damage and DR 15 against everything else, right?

Originally Posted by Jaware

As for it being designed to fragment, I was thinking more along the lines of someone tried to Jerry rig it do do more damage myself.

You'd more likely be jury-rigging the weapon than the projectiles, but I suspect either is possible. What sort of DR do the monsters have? If they don't have much, fragmentation makes sense. If they do, it doesn't, not really.

Originally Posted by Jaware

That's almost the exact specs I made except I had the damage at 3d(2) imp to show that it could pierce into rock easily. Rof 1, Rec 1, Range 380/1000, weight about 4 lbs or so, cost would be relativly cheap for he gun. The bullets I had as some 4$ or so a piece, since they didn't move as fast or deal as muc damage as a regular round would. Why should they cost more than multi spec homing rounds?

For some reason I was thinking the micromissile price was for any Gyroc round that wasn't just a solid bullet. With that in mind, $7.50 makes more sense - it's still going to cost more than a normal bullet (it's a lot fancier, particularly with the ability to be remote detonated).

Originally Posted by Jaware

I was thinking that the rounds they were made to use were the hemp rounds, that way it would drive a nice hole into rock to open up for mining rounds. Buy they were modified to deal more AOE damage. At least that's what I want.

HEMP already do exceptional AOE damage - the fragmentation is what matters, not the crushing explosion (which, as I noted above, is basically null by moving only a few yards away). Of course, the original rounds would be, if anything, HEAT, which you might be well served in making them HEMP later. I'd suggest against that, however - a single 15mm HEAT/HEMP - with 30d of penetration - is going to tear through nearly anything short of a tank, meaning the nifty effect of being able to pump a target full of spikes and blow it up is pretty well meaningless.

Originally Posted by Jaware

The critters themselves are undead and don't have any vitals, so they won't really pop like overripe cherries, but more than anything I would like the explosion to be more powerful, but with a shorter range. I have no idea if gurps can even do that much less if one should. But as for the fragmentation I was thinking maybe the Shrapnal bits could be made of superfine or hyper dense material, both of which would increase the useability of the weapon. And it would fit with the storyline.

First off, the x3 damage for internal explosions doesn't require the target to have Vitals to come into play (the reference to Vitals is more just to note "Hey, this has the same damage multiplier, ain't that keen?"). If you want a powerful "explosion" with a short range, throw realism out the window (and/or invoke superscience) to have an effect with a proper area of effect, where it does full damage within a given range, no damage outside of this (or even do it in tiers if you'd like).

As for the fragmentation, you might be able to justify an armor divisor on the fragments from hyperdense materials. Most of those get an armor divisor of (5), although with how haphazard shrapnel is going to be, I'd be tempted to drop that to (2) or (3).

Originally Posted by Jaware

With the fragmentation at an armor divisor (is that even a thing?) the radius would be shorter but it still would be threatening to be in the blast.iif I can't do do that, than I was also thinking double knock back or something to show that it was a large force that would at least knock groups of enemies over so they can buy themselves some breathing room. Unfortrtunatly the enemies have about 16hp on average. And usually around14 or so str. So the boom needs to be very big to knock them over if DBKB isn't used...

Double knockback is extremely appropriate for cinematic explosions. Heck, quadruple knockback wouldn't be out of the question.

[Jaware]

Originally Posted by Varyon

So, 30/15*, with DR 30 against piercing-class and cutting damage and DR 15 against everything else, right?

Yep. that's correct.

Originally Posted by Varyon

You'd more likely be jury-rigging the weapon than the projectiles, but I suspect either is possible. What sort of DR do the monsters have? If they don't have much, fragmentation makes sense. If they do, it doesn't, not really.

The usual monsters have anywhere from 20 to 30 dr on average. with 10 to 15 flexible toughskin. The gauss rifles in the game are from icelanders ultratech guns page. they seemed to be extremely well balanced when i looked them over.

Originally Posted by Varyon

For some reason I was thinking the micromissile price was for any Gyroc round that wasn't just a solid bullet. With that in mind, $7.50 makes more sense - it's still going to cost more than a normal bullet (it's a lot fancier, particularly with the ability to be remote detonated).

That's what I was thinking. pricey, but not outlandishly pricey. Enough to which if they wanted to make them homing micromissiles itll hurt their pocketbook.

Originally Posted by Varyon

HEMP already do exceptional AOE damage - the fragmentation is what matters, not the crushing explosion (which, as I noted above, is basically null by moving only a few yards away). Of course, the original rounds would be, if anything, HEAT, which you might be well served in making them HEMP later. I'd suggest against that, however - a single 15mm HEAT/HEMP - with 30d of penetration - is going to tear through nearly anything short of a tank, meaning the nifty effect of being able to pump a target full of spikes and blow it up is pretty well meaningless.

Yyyyyyeeeeaaaa, and that's why I'm consulting the hivemind first before i break something that i cant fix in my game Hahaha

Originally Posted by Varyon

First off, the x3 damage for internal explosions doesn't require the target to have Vitals to come into play (the reference to Vitals is more just to note "Hey, this has the same damage multiplier, ain't that keen?"). If you want a powerful "explosion" with a short range, throw realism out the window (and/or invoke superscience) to have an effect with a proper area of effect, where it does full damage within a given range, no damage outside of this (or even do it in tiers if you'd like).

I stand corrected. I must have read it wrong, I thought it said to treat it as an attack on the vitals so if there were no vitals, than no modifier. but it makes sense to me. I just kinda shrugged and assumed that it was that way for some reason that I didn't catch yet.

Originally Posted by Varyon

As for the fragmentation, you might be able to justify an armor divisor on the fragments from hyperdense materials. Most of those get an armor divisor of (5), although with how haphazard shrapnel is going to be, I'd be tempted to drop that to (2) or (3).

fragmentation for 1d-1 will average some 2.5 points of cutting. the AD of 2 will make it cut through armor as a 5 point shard would. and the AD of 3 would cut through armor as a 7.5 point shard would so it still wouldnt slive through the DR 30 that they have... still could be super destructive to lots of smaller enemies without much if any armor.

my main concern will be someone shooting it at their feet and detonating it when there's a swarm of little things. Them walking away Scott clean and everything else looking like the set of a cheap slasher B movie.

Originally Posted by Varyon

Double knockback is extremely appropriate for cinematic explosions. Heck, quadruple knockback wouldn't be out of the question.

Makes sense to me. I'll do some test here and see what I like more about it.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Jaware

my main concern will be someone shooting it at their feet and detonating it when there's a swarm of little things. Them walking away Scott clean and everything else looking like the set of a cheap slasher B movie.

Using ammo from the gun would be a waste in that context. Better to just drop a small grenade or two.

But fundamentally, the DR you've provided your PCs means that they can employ tactics of spraying their own positions with shrapnel or projectiles. There's a limit on how powerful the things they use can be, sure, but it's more than adequate to chop anything remotely human or animal equivalent to ribbons.

[Jaware]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Using ammo from the gun would be a waste in that context. Better to just drop a small grenade or two.

But fundamentally, the DR you've provided your PCs means that they can employ tactics of spraying their own positions with shrapnel or projectiles. There's a limit on how powerful the things they use can be, sure, but it's more than adequate to chop anything remotely human or animal equivalent to ribbons.

yyyyeeeeaaaaa I have noticed that. But its a rookie mistake. I was preordained to make them. This is the first Game I've ever GMed and on top of that, the first gurps game id ever played. sooooooo. mistakes were made. I just have to find a way to deal with them now.

[Mathulhu]

When they drop stuff at their feet and shrug it off just smile and nod like they did something awesome.

Also don't forget you can always change things if you don't like them. If you put a little work into the explanation and make it interesting (don't do it just to take their toys away) you won't have a mutiny.

[Jaware]

Originally Posted by Mathulhu

When they drop stuff at their feet and shrug it off just smile and nod like they did something awesome.

Also don't forget you can always change things if you don't like them. If you put a little work into the explanation and make it interesting (don't do it just to take their toys away) you won't have a mutiny.

That's been my reaction so far. If the dice roll it and it's probable, let it fly. I try not to say no unless it just can't work, or it will turn the game upside down.

Yea I've had to once or twice. I try not to if I can help it. And any shenanigans the pcs can think of is fair game. They just all remember no one has plot armor. Not even them. It keeps them on their toes.