Need advice designing a fair ultra tech gun.

[Jaware]

Once again I call upon the knowledge of the hive mind for gurps advice. Hahaha.

I am currently trying to design an ultra tech gun for my gurps campaign that my pcs, and maybe an npc or so can use.

For those that would like a little flavorful background, it's a dead space-isk type game with a bit less jump scares and a bit more on the side of horror/impending doom. *insert evil laughter* For those of you who have played the first darksiders it's something akin to the demons gun you get to used. But what I'm wanting is something far less powerful. Or at least makes them pay for that power by bleeding their pocketbooks.

What I have for concept is something like the MLAWS 6 round tube launcher. But it fires "small(ish) harpoon type projectiles" that lodge into targets (assuming enough damage was dealt) then once as many as desired have been fired, they can be detonated with a ready maneuver. Basic stats are what I'm having problems with. I know I want it to be a 6 round tube drum like a revolver, with a Rof of 1, and a recoil of 1.

From my reading of the Ultra Tech book, I think gyrocs would work best as a starting point. I intend it to not function super well in combat, at least not initially since it was designed for use as a mining tool instead of a weapon.

But the basic stats are what I'm having trouble with. For reference most pcs and npcs have dr 30/15 in the form of space suits.

And as I have learned, explosions are extremely scary in gurps. So the explosions being close to the user are going to be an extremely important to watch out for.

But as for stats, I don't really know. I was thinking something like a slower than usual rocket from the gyroc to justify the explosive not detonating upon impact, and a payload of an HE round doing a15mm warhead explosion with fragmentation.

But the fragmentation will pretty much be lost because of the DR of everyone. Off the top of my head I think it's [1d-1]. But I can't think of a way to make that dangerous without making the frag radius much much much bigger.

Well, I appreciate any help or opinions of more experienced GMs and players that can be given, along with constructive criticism. I don't think I forgot anything, but if I did just ask and I'll fill in.

Oh yea, and it's TL11 by the way, with most of the stuff being found on their location being archaic TL 9 and TL 10 stuff since they are on the edge of the known Galaxy on a tiny abandoned outpost.

[Ulzgoroth]

Fragmentation damage is extremely consistent: 1d/20mm of the explosive shell. Against armored space suits, fragmentation from anything but very big warheads is going to be generally ineffective, and for that matter explosives in general aren't particularly scary.

Why do you expect small explosives to be scary, when people have full-body armor? Or in general, for that matter. If you want the PCs to be afraid of small explosions, you're going to have to either make their suits much less protective, or make them worry about protecting the suit.

That said, any mining explosive would almost certainly be larger than a 15mm UT warhead. 15mm is decidedly too small to fit any respectable 'boom' in. Something more like 25mm...still isn't going to be a significant hazard to the armored user, but at least would be a bit less of a squib.

[GodBeastX]

Realistically (Gaming realistically perhaps):

30 DR is a lot for most ballistics. And if you are looking to use a ballistic medium then you're probably going to watch most objects bounce right off. Take a Gyroc, 6d is 21 average so it's not really something to fear.

I would have probably looked at Gauss before a Gyroc. Considering the Gauss "Needles" are more like spikes.

Either way it's not ideal to use a needle or spike for an explosive, I imagine.

Cinematically (My favorite):

Of course you can make explosive needles. You can pretty much give them whatever stats you want and handwaive it with pseudo science explanations.

First thought in my mind when you spoke about not exploding right away was C4. Do I know how C4 works? Nope, but I saw movies where you can smash it, run it over, put it in your mouth and chew, but it won't explode until it gets an electric charge! And that sorta psuedo reality is exactly what Cinematic is about.

So just say it has a radio detonator in the gun tied to the spikes fired from the weapon. That way other radio guns can't blow them up. They're made of a super hard explosive polymer that when ignition is triggered, BOOM!

Give them a PI damage type based on side, a dice damage based on velocity (Which will probably affect range), armor penetration based on hardness, and you got your deadly spiked bombs!

Mathematically 30 DR with (2) penetration probably needs around 4d6 to 5d6 to make a weapon scary for armor pen. Explosions you can make up whatever, it's psuedo science. Just pick numbers. Maybe do a formula based on how many hits were sustained from the needles. Could use something based on shotgun damages. Of course, blow through might be a problem with a piercing weapon. So if damage > what a body part can sustain, the needle didn't stick in, it went right through!

[Juca]

Well, you can use something like a Gyroc Carbine loaded with APHEX. It will do its normal damage with a (2) armor divisor, or 6d(2) pi++, and, more importantly, with the projectile penetrates the armor, the following explosion will be internal, so the 1d-2 cr ex will ignore armor and be multiplied by 3...

There is no need to justify such a weapon as a mining tool, but if you will you can tell the players that such "tools" are used to open small holes in rocks and soil for the larger explosives to be inserted...

[Varyon]

First off, the space suit DR. Is this split DR meant to represent different DR in different locations (as seen with rigid armor) or different DR against different attacks (as seen with flexible armor)? If the former, spikes might have less issue getting past armor away from the Torso and Skull, and shooting those locations might be able to carve away some of the armor with the follow up explosions (basically, pump the chest full of spikes, blow them up, then your next round of spikes have a better chance of reaching the juicy center). If the latter, you'll want to consider which applies to the Imp spikes you're throwing at the targets.

Secondly, the users probably don't need to worry much about the explosions. A 15mm HEC (why would a mining tool be designed to fragment?) warhead is doing* 2d cr ex. That's an average of 7 damage at ground zero, which is less than half the lowest protection of their armor. Maximum damage is 12, which is still less than their armor's protection At 1 yard away, damage is divided by 3, dropping those to 2 and 4, respectively. 2 yards out those become 1 and 2, and at 5 yards away (only -2 to hit) they aren't feeling more than a light push from the explosion, even without armor. The explosive's real effect, in this case, is that if it gets past armor it does triple damage, ripping up the target pretty well (and, as noted above, you can use it as justification to ablate away at armor it fails to penetrate, provided it gets stuck; note this is precisely what it would be designed to do as a mining tool).
*I should note here the actual damage depends on what TL the ammunition is. If it's TL 9, the above damage is appropriate. At TL 10 it changes to 2d+2, and at TL 11 it becomes 2d+4 or 3d. It's still not getting past armor on its own, however.

For stats, personally I'd go with the Gyroc Carbine, dropping the shots to 6(3i), the RoF to 1, and maybe making it Bulk -4. Damage would become 6d imp. Price would stay the same - the drop for a more simplistic design is countered by the need to handle finicky ammunition and the ability to broadcast the detonation signal. The spikes are probably heavier and would cost more than a micromissile; I'd eyeball them at WPS 0.2 and CPS $75 or so. The increased weight should drop their range; going to 1,000 is likely (not that that's likely to matter in a horror campaign). They still need space to get up to speed, as usual, so keep that in mind when the target is within 10 yards (which is likely to matter in a horror campaign).

If you want better precision, you may be interested in picking up GURPS Vehicles, which has a nice chapter on designing weapons. It's a 3e product, so some of the stats will need converting, but damage, weight, and range are consistent between editions. You'll want to figure out MinST, Bulk, and Rcl based on similar weapons, and for 3e Acc is typically double 4e Acc.

[Jaware]

Originally Posted by GodBeastX

Realistically (Gaming realistically perhaps):

30 DR is a lot for most ballistics. And if you are looking to use a ballistic medium then you're probably going to watch most objects bounce right off. Take a Gyroc, 6d is 21 average so it's not really something to fear.

I would have probably looked at Gauss before a Gyroc. Considering the Gauss "Needles" are more like spikes.

Either way it's not ideal to use a needle or spike for an explosive, I imagine.

Cinematically (My favorite):

Of course you can make explosive needles. You can pretty much give them whatever stats you want and handwaive it with pseudo science explanations.

First thought in my mind when you spoke about not exploding right away was C4. Do I know how C4 works? Nope, but I saw movies where you can smash it, run it over, put it in your mouth and chew, but it won't explode until it gets an electric charge! And that sorta psuedo reality is exactly what Cinematic is about.

So just say it has a radio detonator in the gun tied to the spikes fired from the weapon. That way other radio guns can't blow them up. They're made of a super hard explosive polymer that when ignition is triggered, BOOM!

Give them a PI damage type based on side, a dice damage based on velocity (Which will probably affect range), armor penetration based on hardness, and you got your deadly spiked bombs!

Mathematically 30 DR with (2) penetration probably needs around 4d6 to 5d6 to make a weapon scary for armor pen. Explosions you can make up whatever, it's psuedo science. Just pick numbers. Maybe do a formula based on how many hits were sustained from the needles. Could use something based on shotgun damages. Of course, blow through might be a problem with a piercing weapon. So if damage > what a body part can sustain, the needle didn't stick in, it went right through!

As for their armor being DR30, is more for other reasons that take to long to explain haha. Buy yes. At the moment while I was designing it, I made it launch basic spikes with a small armor divisor of 2 to show its ability to pierce into rock formations.

[Jaware]

Originally Posted by Juca

Well, you can use something like a Gyroc Carbine loaded with APHEX. It will do its normal damage with a (2) armor divisor, or 6d(2) pi++, and, more importantly, with the projectile penetrates the armor, the following explosion will be internal, so the 1d-2 cr ex will ignore armor and be multiplied by 3...

There is no need to justify such a weapon as a mining tool, but if you will you can tell the players that such "tools" are used to open small holes in rocks and soil for the larger explosives to be inserted...

This was the first place that I looked, but it's a follow up attack. And I was looking more for a triggered follow up.

The tool part I wanted to actually be a mining tool, but converted by some poor sap long ago who wanted to live.

[Jaware]

Originally Posted by Varyon

First off, the space suit DR. Is this split DR meant to represent different DR in different locations (as seen with rigid armor) or different DR against different attacks (as seen with flexible armor)? If the former, spikes might have less issue getting past armor away from the Torso and Skull, and shooting those locations might be able to carve away some of the armor with the follow up explosions (basically, pump the chest full of spikes, blow them up, then your next round of spikes have a better chance of reaching the juicy center). If the latter, you'll want to consider which applies to the Imp spikes you're throwing at the targets.

Secondly, the users probably don't need to worry much about the explosions. A 15mm HEC (why would a mining tool be designed to fragment?) warhead is doing* 2d cr ex. That's an average of 7 damage at ground zero, which is less than half the lowest protection of their armor. Maximum damage is 12, which is still less than their armor's protection At 1 yard away, damage is divided by 3, dropping those to 2 and 4, respectively. 2 yards out those become 1 and 2, and at 5 yards away (only -2 to hit) they aren't feeling more than a light push from the explosion, even without armor. The explosive's real effect, in this case, is that if it gets past armor it does triple damage, ripping up the target pretty well (and, as noted above, you can use it as justification to ablate away at armor it fails to penetrate, provided it gets stuck; note this is precisely what it would be designed to do as a mining tool).
*I should note here the actual damage depends on what TL the ammunition is. If it's TL 9, the above damage is appropriate. At TL 10 it changes to 2d+2, and at TL 11 it becomes 2d+4 or 3d. It's still not getting past armor on its own, however.

For stats, personally I'd go with the Gyroc Carbine, dropping the shots to 6(3i), the RoF to 1, and maybe making it Bulk -4. Damage would become 6d imp. Price would stay the same - the drop for a more simplistic design is countered by the need to handle finicky ammunition and the ability to broadcast the detonation signal. The spikes are probably heavier and would cost more than a micromissile; I'd eyeball them at WPS 0.2 and CPS $75 or so. The increased weight should drop their range; going to 1,000 is likely (not that that's likely to matter in a horror campaign). They still need space to get up to speed, as usual, so keep that in mind when the target is within 10 yards (which is likely to matter in a horror campaign).

If you want better precision, you may be interested in picking up GURPS Vehicles, which has a nice chapter on designing weapons. It's a 3e product, so some of the stats will need converting, but damage, weight, and range are consistent between editions. You'll want to figure out MinST, Bulk, and Rcl based on similar weapons, and for 3e Acc is typically double 4e Acc.

I forgot to say that the armor was flexible, sorry it was late last night and I was writing a 4 page research paper for school hahaha.

As for it being designed to fragment, I was thinking more along the lines of someone tried to Jerry rig it do do more damage myself.

That's almost the exact specs I made except I had the damage at 3d(2) imp to show that it could pierce into rock easily. Rof 1, Rec 1, Range 380/1000, weight about 4 lbs or so, cost would be relativly cheap for he gun. The bullets I had as some 4$ or so a piece, since they didn't move as fast or deal as muc damage as a regular round would. Why should they cost more than multi spec homing rounds?

I was thinking that the rounds they were made to use were the hemp rounds, that way it would drive a nice hole into rock to open up for mining rounds. Buy they were modified to deal more AOE damage. At least that's what I want.

The critters themselves are undead and don't have any vitals, so they won't really pop like overripe cherries, but more than anything I would like the explosion to be more powerful, but with a shorter range. I have no idea if gurps can even do that much less if one should. But as for the fragmentation I was thinking maybe the Shrapnal bits could be made of superfine or hyper dense material, both of which would increase the useability of the weapon. And it would fit with the storyline.

This is all mostly because of if the rounds are super expensive, the pcs wouldn't want to sink their money into into it unless it can one shot the boss. Which I want to avoid if at all possible. And wasting a 75$ round on just run of the mill enemies seems like a waste to me, and I'm sure to my PCs as well.

With the fragmentation at an armor divisor (is that even a thing?) the radius would be shorter but it still would be threatening to be in the blast.iif I can't do do that, than I was also thinking double knock back or something to show that it was a large force that would at least knock groups of enemies over so they can buy themselves some breathing room. Unfortrtunatly the enemies have about 16hp on average. And usually around14 or so str. So the boom needs to be very big to knock them over if DBKB isn't used...

[Juca]

Originally Posted by Jaware

This was the first place that I looked, but it's a follow up attack. And I was looking more for a triggered follow up.

The tool part I wanted to actually be a mining tool, but converted by some poor sap long ago who wanted to live.

Well, you will not find something exactly like that because there is no realistic ammo than can withstand a bullet-like impact and still have a working communicator to be triggered, but, if you still like something like that, I think that the gyroc carbine is a good starting point, or even the Splat Gun. You just need to stat the explosion can be triggered wireless at X meters/km, and decide if it can be removed from the body before the explosion, and what damage it would do in this case (tip: use the same rules as for stuck swinging melee attacks)

[Ulzgoroth]

Certainly as GM you can make up armor-piercing fragmentation if you want to. I don't think it makes any sense at all as an actual thing, nor is it present in any GURPS book I'm aware of, but it's trivial enough to put into the game if you're set on it.

I'm not sure that HEAT/HEMP would be any good for punching boreholes in rock to plant charges. It'll punch holes, sure, but it does so by punching a fluid, very fast stream of metal in. When shot into a rock wall where it can't punch out the far side, I'd expect the hole to be substantially blocked with the penetrator material.

Also, 3d(2) isn't going to get you far into rock. 6d of penetration is going to give you maybe a couple inches into stone. Not more, and possibly rather less since penetrating into a surface with unlimited rock behind it is likely harder than penetrating through a barrier.