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Old 07-26-2018, 07:14 PM   #1
Dalillama
 
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Default Pak Protecters in GURPS

I'm amazed there doesn't appear to be a GURPS writeup for a Pak Protector template from Larry Niven's Known Space anywhere, but I haven't been able to find one. Offhand, I'd say something like:
Pak Protector (478/418)
ST:+8 (80)
IQ:+10 (200)
DX:+6 (120)
HT:+3 (30)

Absolute Timing (5)
Common Sense (10)
Danger Sense (15)
Photographic Memory (10)
Combat Reflexes (15)
Lifting ST +12 (36)
Striking ST +6 (18)
Sharp Claws (5)
Sharp Teeth (5) (technically a beak)
DR 3 (tough skin -40%) (9)
Discriminatory Smell (emotion sense +50%) (23)
Hard to Kill 2 (4)
High Pain Threshold (10)
Intuition (15)
Less Sleep 4 (8)
Unaging (15)

Appearance (Monstrous) {-24)
Callous (-5)
Intolerance (anyone not related to them in at least a broad fashion) (-10)
Sexless (-1)
Obsession (protect genetic line) (6-) (-20)*
Sense of Duty (family) (-5)*
Dependency (Tree-of-Life root) (Daily, very common on Pak, Rare elsewhere)
(-30/-90)
Dependents (Less than 25%, Loved ones, Almost All the Time) (-60)*

*Protectors who have no living relatives usually suicide, but sometimes the whole species can be substituted for the family.







This is literally done in ten minutes with a copy of Characters, it could probably be improved.

ETA: This has been updated considerably

Last edited by Dalillama; 07-28-2018 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 07-26-2018, 09:41 PM   #2
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Default Re: Pak Protecters in GURPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalillama View Post
I'm amazed there doesn't appear to be a GURPS writeup for a Pak Protector template from Larry Niven's Known Space anywhere, but I haven't been able to find one. Offhand, I'd say something like:
Pak Protector (646)
ST:+15 (150)
IQ:+10 (200)
DX:+8 (160)
HT:+10 (100)

Combat Reflexes (15)
Sharp Claws (5)
DR 7 (tough skin -40%) (21)*
Discriminatory Smell (15)
Hard to Kill 5 (10)
High Pain Threshold (10)
Intuition (15)
Less Sleep 4 (8)
Unaging (needs Tree of Life -20%) (12)

Appearance (Monstrous) {-24)
Callous (-5)
Bloodlust 6- (-20)
Intolerance (anyone not related to them in at least a broad fashion) (-10)
Sexless (-1)
Obsession (protect genetic line) (-10)
Sense of Duty (family) (-5)



*'Hard enough to turn a copper knife'; max ST for a large knife is 16, so max thrusting damage for a protector with such a knife would be 7


This is literally done in ten minutes with a copy of Characters, it could probably be improved.
I don't know that a Protector (at least a Pak or Human Protector) necessarily has true Bloodlust Disad. There's no indication that they particularly enjoy either fighting or killing for their own sake, it's a side effect of the 'remove threats to bloodline' programming and they are quite 'controlled' about it. Give a Protector a rational reason not to kill you, in terms of his 'protect my gene-line' imperative, and he'll happily let you live. It's just that you have to give him (or it) that reason on his terms.

The IQ boost might be in line, but there would need to be something restricting it, because for all their brilliance, Pak Protectors are not particularly imaginative. Human Protectors might be a different story, in fact, Brennan seemed to retain quite a bit of his human-breeder imagination as a Protector, to judge by his asteroid-base.

But the true Pak Protector in that story, though he could figure out how to duplicate the fusion rocket engine of Brennan's ship simply by examining it for an hour or two, could not comprehend representative art. It didn't fit anywhere into his mental framework. Maps, yes. Diagrams, fine. Blueprints, right on. But he lacked the necessary imagination to grasp human art as a concept.
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Last edited by Johnny1A.2; 07-26-2018 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 07-26-2018, 09:43 PM   #3
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Default Re: Pak Protecters in GURPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalillama View Post
I'm amazed there doesn't appear to be a GURPS writeup for a Pak Protector template from Larry Niven's Known Space anywhere, but I haven't been able to find one. Offhand, I'd say something like:
Pak Protector (646)
ST:+15 (150)
IQ:+10 (200)
Does this mean they have IQ 20, or is it only 18 or so, since the breeders are Homo Habilis?
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Old 07-26-2018, 09:47 PM   #4
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Default Re: Pak Protecters in GURPS

Protectors fall into a severe depression if they have no living breeder relatives. Severe enough that they will starve themselves to death, unless they can redefine "relatives" to mean all Pak. Should this be written in as a Dependency or something?
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Old 07-26-2018, 10:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Pak Protecters in GURPS

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Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2 View Post

But the true Pak Protector in that story, though he could figure out how to duplicate the fusion rocket engine of Brennan's ship simply by examining it for an hour or two, could not comprehend representative art. It didn't fit anywhere into his mental framework. Maps, yes. Diagrams, fine. Blueprints, right on. But he lacked the necessary imagination to grasp human art as a concept.
This is a lens applied to an existing hominid. Presumably Homo habilis has traits like Hidebound, and those carry over.

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Does this mean they have IQ 20, or is it only 18 or so, since the breeders are Homo Habilis?
A Pak protector has 16-18. A human Protector has 20-23 probably

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Originally Posted by cptbutton View Post
Protectors fall into a severe depression if they have no living breeder relatives. Severe enough that they will starve themselves to death, unless they can redefine "relatives" to mean all Pak. Should this be written in as a Dependency or something?
Probably
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Old 07-26-2018, 10:14 PM   #6
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Default Re: Pak Protecters in GURPS

The stats are really going to depend on where, exactly, you draw the Protectors from Niven's continuity. They got steadily more impressive over time. There's quite a gap between Jack Brennan, who's smarter than most humans, but capable of error (for example, failing to think of the Pak colonizing fleet), and Louis Wu, literally incapable of comprehending his own thought processes once he gets "reset" back to baseline humans.

I prefer the earlier versions of the Protectors, where they're not invincible, impossible-to-outthink demigods, so my comments will be geared along those lines.

I think IQ+10 is much too high, for a couple of reasons. First, it doesn't leave any room for variation - practically all human-derived Protectors will be identical intelligence levels, sitting at 20. I feel there should be some room for differences in Protector intelligence, whether from starting from an inherently higher-intelligence baseline, or long experience. Second, high IQ on its own doesn't really do much of what the Protectors manage to do - I think you need other advantages for that, which I'll cover below.

I'd make the human-baseline Protector IQ boost be something like +5 or +6 - enough to make even an average human into a genius, but leaving room for improvement above it. For a baseline barely sapient breeder, like a Pak, I'd peg the IQ boost at more like +8. That's enough to turn an IQ 6 breeder into something comfortably smarter than a human, but not as intelligent as, say, Brennan post-transformation.

I think I'd tone down the DX bonus too - the Protectors are definitely much more agile than baseline humanity, but again, I think you want to leave room for variation. I'd go for DX +5 for pretty much all the different forms of Protector.

HT +10 is just way too high. Protectors are tougher than baseline breeders, but HT +10 just makes them pretty much invulnerable. It means that even major tissue damage that doesn't kill them instantly will almost certainly be recovered from, for instance, and we know that Protectors have died from such attacks, so it can't be that much. Likewise, we know Protectors are vulnerable to diseases (that's how the original population on the Ringworld died out), and HT +10 just doesn't allow for that. I'd pull this down a lot, to more like HT +2, and pull down the Hard to Kill to only +2 or +3 or so.

The total level of ST is okay, but you might want to switch some of it to levels of Lifting and Striking ST - while Protectors certainly have more HP than humans, I don't think they have 150% more.

It's in advantages that I'd suggest you make up for the "intelligence" of the Protectors, rather than raw IQ. You've already got Intuition, which is good, but I'd add at least some of the following, or at least present them as optional for a Protector:
  • Absolute Timing
  • Common Sense
  • Danger Sense
  • Eidetic/Photographic Memory
  • Empathy (limited to Pak-descended species only, perhaps)
  • Enhanced Tracking
  • Gadgeteer (Brennan definitely had this)
  • Lightning Calculator/Intuitive Mathematician
  • Language Talent
  • Oracle (with the "requires access to data" limitation from Powers, representing sifting through reams of information and deriving answers from that)
  • Precognition (with the same limitations as Oracle)
  • Versatile
  • Visualization (probably with Reduced Time)

If you've got it, I'd also strongly recommend the Foresight advantage, from the article "Fortunately, I Saw This Coming" in Pyramid #3/53. It's a generalization of the Gizmo rules, allowing the character to retroactively declare they did something, brought some piece of gear, or otherwise were prepared, and it's one of the best traits I know to describe a cinematically intelligent character, which Protectors definitely qualify for.

As for other traits, I'd suggest at least a couple levels of Charisma. Despite the appearance, there's some suggestions that Pak descendants are genetically programmed to respect and listen to beings that look like Protectors.

I think the Obsession needs a much lower self-control number. It's basically the defining characteristic of a Protector, and suggested to be very difficult indeed to evade. Conversely, I think the Bloodlust could have a much higher self-control target, or be removed entirely. Protectors fight to win, certainly, but I don't think they ever make the tactically poor choice to kill off an enemy when there are other foes on the battlefield. I think their tendency to kill off the defeated, when all their foes are dead, is adequately explained by their Obsession and general Callousness. But if it was tactically or strategically valuable to leave a foe alive, they'll do so.
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Old 07-26-2018, 11:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: Pak Protecters in GURPS

I am not a stat normaliser guy but these bonii are way higher than I would go.

IQ: Paks are smart but it's more freedom from emotions and other silliness that allows them to see clearly. Not exactly sure how I would model this off the top of my head but IQ+4 seems plenty.

DX: DX+4 is the highest I would go. Might be better to go with Combat Reflexes, Speed +2 and DX +1 for example.

HT: Yeah HT+2 is enough, add Fit and Resistance to Metabolic Hazards as required.

ST: This is the one I'm happiest with, like ST+6 or ST+8 or something would be enough for me.
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Old 07-26-2018, 11:12 PM   #8
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Default Re: Pak Protecters in GURPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
I think the Obsession needs a much lower self-control number. It's basically the defining characteristic of a Protector, and suggested to be very difficult indeed to evade. Conversely, I think the Bloodlust could have a much higher self-control target, or be removed entirely. Protectors fight to win, certainly, but I don't think they ever make the tactically poor choice to kill off an enemy when there are other foes on the battlefield. I think their tendency to kill off the defeated, when all their foes are dead, is adequately explained by their Obsession and general Callousness. But if it was tactically or strategically valuable to leave a foe alive, they'll do so.
When Phssthpok's side lost a war, he was able to make a treaty with the winners to allow his sole remaining relative live out her life (but she was already sterile from radiation). So the other Pak were able to refrain from killing her when it was no long term threat and spared them whatever further damage Phssthpok would have been able to do. And keep their word.
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Old 07-27-2018, 05:35 AM   #9
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Default Re: Pak Protecters in GURPS

Valid points, will update the template when I'm not at work.
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Old 07-27-2018, 06:14 AM   #10
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Default Re: Pak Protecters in GURPS

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Originally Posted by Dalillama View Post
*'Hard enough to turn a copper knife'; max ST for a large knife is 16, so max thrusting damage for a protector with such a knife would be 7.
That's not how GURPS looks at DR. DR to protect against something should be equal to the average damage from that attack (rounded down is that's an odd number). Also, the maximum ST for a large knife is ST18, for 3d-2 cut and 1d+2 thrust. Also, "to turn a copper knife" is not the same as "to provide immunity to a copper knife". On top of that, DR7 is far tougher than an man-sized mammal's hide. It's heavy plate territory, and Protectors were supposed to be a naturally evolved extension of normal humans. DR2 will stop most knife blows from normal strength opponents, and is more in line with thick hide of actual animals.

Also, I never thought of Protectors as being that much more dextrous than humans, and their greater strength being derived from enlarged joints and increased leverage would actually tend to lower their fine control. I'd add Speed rather than massive amounts of DX.

I seem to recall that they also lost their teeth and gained a form of beak.
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