10-20-2020, 07:47 AM | #31 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Knocking out a WW2 tank
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10-20-2020, 08:01 AM | #32 | |||
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Re: Knocking out a WW2 tank
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It also had the advantage that it could be fired from enclosed spaces, unlike the bazooka. Quote:
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The major issue with facing the T-34 (which when first fielded had a 2 man turret, and was often missing a radio) on an individual level was the guns they carried. Once they put more powerful guns into both the Panzer III & IV (and both had been designed with the capability to do that in mind), they were on a par again. The Panzer 3 did reach the end of its practicable usefulness before the end of the war, but the Panzer 4 was respectable compared against any medium fielded by any of the major powers right up to the end, though it was at a point where it couldn't really been stretched any further (while as both the Sherman and T-34 had more practical use out of them to go, both getting major upgrades in 1944). The biggest thing to use against your tank is terrain. In close terrain, getting a position where you have a decent shot with a LAW against a WW2 tank is probably not hard and you are probably just as, if not more, mobile than they are (in open country they can just drive away from you...). You also have superior visibility than they do without exposing themselves, so sneaking up on them would probably not be that hard. If you can (somehow) direct your big tank through a confined space you may be able to get it to cross your mine, potentially immobilising it. If immobilised, the crew are likely to make a runner if they think it is safe to do so. Distance would be pretty much as close as possible while still maintaining some kind of cover, as has already been mentioned, accuracy was not the strength of any of these weapons. I am not sure how much you could specifically aim at points on a tank with these weapons, but I guess "generally not at the front armour" would be best. Theoretically driver's vision ports and the like are weak spots (and there is an account of a Tiger being knocked out by a bazooka hit on the driver's vision slot), but I don't know whether actually aiming for those parts will work. Trying to immobilise it might work (and the lower sides of a tank are probably a good target for these kind of weapons anyway), and if successful in close terrain you can bugger off afterwards leaving it stuck. There are also several accounts of tanks being taken out of the fight by hits at the turret ring, sometimes as a result of it being a weak spot, but others simply because it jammed the turret mechanism. Certainly possible if the terrain is right, and your tank hunter is particularly audacious. However the main problem for is actually supporting infantry, as you are exactly the kind of target they are meant to be looking for, and obvious tank ambush points are going to be exactly the kind of points where good supporting infantry are going to be on their highest alert. |
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10-20-2020, 11:35 AM | #33 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Knocking out a WW2 tank
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Compared to mid-war Shermans and T-34s, late-model Pz IVs had serious weight distribution issues from fitting an acceptable gun and armor onto a chassis designed with no notion of what 'acceptable' would mean at that point. And a blatantly dated front armor design. Quote:
Purportedly they were working on a Panzer IV model armed with the same 5 cm gun when they suddenly hit Soviet armor and realized that they had badly underestimated what a tank-fighting tank would need. The long 7.5 cm gun and the Panzer IV were never meant to go together - the gun needed modifications to fit at all, and the tank wound up severely front-heavy due to the barrel. It worked, to be sure, but that was no planned-for upgrade path.
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10-20-2020, 12:52 PM | #34 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: Knocking out a WW2 tank
What's more, the Pz.IV's side armour was never really adequate, with those Soviet anti-tank rifles putting holes in them all through the war.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
10-20-2020, 05:14 PM | #35 | |
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: Knocking out a WW2 tank
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A bazooka or a Piat preferably less than 50m to hit, the panzerfaust less than 20m and the mine.. well you would really need to emplace it before or try some silly tricks that are very unlikely to do anything except get you killed.. Though a few tanks were knocked out by placed or hurled anti tank mines but that is kind of unlikely. On knocking out tanks: The mine if hits the track is fairly likely to cause a mobility kill but then you are hopefully somewhere not nearby yourself as the tank just became a pill box with ****** off enemies trying to see if they have someone to shoot at.. The Piat had a benefit of not having a signature thus making it the most survivable for the user. It also had no back blast but it was big, unwieldy and hard to make ready to shoot. Also the charge was pretty anemic in penetration so least likely to disable a tank of the three listed AT launchers. The Bazooka: Depends a lot on what generation one you have: Early 60mm, late 60mm or the super bazooka. Early 60mm was a bit unreliable and the external wires were easy to break. The later were more reliable and had the wires internally. The 60mm weapons were more effective than a Piat likely in penetration and accuracy, but still not enough against heavier targets. The later super bazooka would be much better. The panzerfaust it again depends on the model.. the panzerfaust klein 30 was slightly better penetration than the above but not overwhelmingly so, the panzerfaust 30 was much better penetration and damage with the large 142mm warhead. The panzerfaust 60 had longer range. Overall, if you are close enough and hit a tank with this, it has the best chance of knocking it out. As to probabilities of knocking such out: very low regardless. Overall figures are in the 1-5% range of shots depending on the situation and source. The Highest rate that I can recall was Finland using about 4000 panzerfausts and about 3200 Panzerschreck ammunition to knock out about 500 tanks in 1944. As to where to shoot: a panzerfaust should penetrate about any WWII tank in the side at any point and the front in most places.. The other weapons less so. But in any case the best place to shoot is at side and at middle to hit the likely locations of ammunition inside. Overall: if the tank is in close terrain without infantry support and you know what you are doing, you have a fair chance if you have a AT launcher and you are mostly likely to survive. If they have infantry support then you might get that one shot off and then it is a question of if your friends can keep the enemy infantry heads down while you high tail out. In more open terrain your chances of both succeeding and surviving are much lower. As a final comment: If I could indeed chose what weapon to use, it would depends on the location and situation. In a city: Likely panzerfaust as it likely has the best "one shot kill" probability and you can likely get close. Second choice would be a Piat as it can be shot best from inside houses and such due to no backblast. In a dense forest/rocky or similar broken terrain again a panzerfaust for the best one shot kill probability as you can get close. In more open terrain: Likely the super bazooka as it has from what I understood the best long range hit probability. With a Piat as a second choice as a shot with it might not even be noticed even by the enemy infantry if there is some fighting going on. |
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10-20-2020, 05:53 PM | #36 | |||
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: Knocking out a WW2 tank
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
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10-20-2020, 06:13 PM | #37 | |||
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: Knocking out a WW2 tank
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But in close terrain it allowed things like Ville Väisänen to destroy 8 T-34s in a single morning on june 28. 1944. Last edited by weby; 10-21-2020 at 04:56 AM. |
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10-20-2020, 11:01 PM | #38 |
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
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Re: Knocking out a WW2 tank
The effort to build better wound up causing them to build far less. For example, the average production run between design changes on the Tiger was less than 6 tanks.
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RyanW - Actually one normal sized guy in three tiny trenchcoats. |
10-21-2020, 04:58 AM | #39 |
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: Knocking out a WW2 tank
The big problem was not the complexity, though it did contribute, the big problem was that by the time they started producing those their economy was already failing.
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10-21-2020, 05:44 AM | #40 |
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Re: Knocking out a WW2 tank
The perfidious Western Allies insisted on bombing their factories, which was really unsporting of them.
What did the Russians use for handheld AT-capability?
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