Weapon skills, what I would change with GURPS

[Vardukson]

The Vikings, and The Saxons are hardly a wierd exception. At least according to GURPS Vikings and GURPS Middle Ages, many warriors were trained not to parry with their swords except as a last resort, because this had a high chance of breaking the weapon. This was the sensible thing to do, not a trait of untrained fighters.

[DanHoward]

I think that is a bit of a myth. All of the surviving texts teach plenty of parries. Any sword that couldn't survive a parry would have been shoved up the smith's arse.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

I think that is a bit of a myth. All of the surviving texts teach plenty of parries. Any sword that couldn't survive a parry would have been shoved up the smith's arse.

I believe it's a matter of degree. Sure, all styles of combat teach some parries, but not all of them teach as many or practise them for equal periods of time.

Having someone have skill 1 point higher, but default parries from a -2 from that skill (the mechanisms for Optional Specialisation), seems like a fine way to represent a style that does not emphasise parrying with the weapon.

As for shoving poor swords of the posterior of smiths, it may not always have been their fault. The best iron we could get here was poor marsh stuff and we didn't have coal (so, we used charcoal).

Home-made Icelandic swords really were poor. Better off with axes and spears, really, but fashion being fashion, some swords were nevertheless made.

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Icelander

As for shoving poor swords of the posterior of smiths, it may not always have been their fault. The best iron we could get here was poor marsh stuff and we didn't have coal (so, we used charcoal).

Most Scandinavian swords were folded steel. Some were better quality than others but it would not have been used if it couldn't survive a parry. Who in their right mind would take a sword to battle without testing it first? The Japanese produced plenty of quality weapons with even poorer quality ores and charcoal. Two thousand years earlier La Tene Celts were happily making excellent folded steel swords with charcoal. Charcoal has been the preferred fuel since the Bronze Age. Coal isn't used because it was better, it is used because it is cheaper. Most coal is worse than charcoal because sulphur impurities make the metal brittle.

[Trachmyr]

Originally Posted by Icelander

...

Having someone have skill 1 point higher, but default parries from a -2 from that skill (the mechanisms for Optional Specialisation), seems like a fine way to represent a style that does not emphasise parrying with the weapon.

...

That wouldn't work as is... with any odd-level skill you effectively get a +1 to hit without any penalty. It would have to differ from oprtional specialization, directly trading Skill for Parry, or vice versa (in whatever ratio).

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Most Scandinavian swords were folded steel. Some were better quality than others but it would not have been used if it couldn't survive a parry.

*shrug*

Even poor metal can survive a couple parries. But how many can it take without losing the edge? How many until it is at a risk of breakage?

How much chance of breakage do you need until using the shield is a better bet than the sword?

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Who in their right mind would take a sword to battle without testing it first?

Someone as human and therefore erratic as the thousands of people who buy guns for self-defence and then fail to either maintain them or train with them?

Originally Posted by DanHoward

The Japanese produced plenty of quality weapons with even poorer quality ores and charcoal. Two thousand years earlier La Tene Celts were happily making excellent folded steel swords with charcoal. Charcoal has been the preferred fuel since the Bronze Age. Coal isn't used because it was better, it is used because it is cheaper. Most coal is worse than charcoal because sulphur impurities make the metal brittle.

Yet museum curators and archeologists here are confident saying that Icelandic swords were measurably inferior to most swords made on the mainland, that Icelandic Vikings were aware of this and made efforts to buy foreign swords and that the swords made for poorer men who desired to look as if they could afford imported steel were so inferior that they would bend when used in battle.

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Yet museum curators and archeologists here are confident saying that Icelandic swords were measurably inferior to most swords made on the mainland, that Icelandic Vikings were aware of this and made efforts to buy foreign swords and that the swords made for poorer men who desired to look as if they could afford imported steel were so inferior that they would bend when used in battle.

Possibly. Point is that it would have little to do with ore quality and nothing to do with charcoal.

[Joseph Paul]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Most Scandinavian swords were folded steel. Some were better quality than others but it would not have been used if it couldn't survive a parry.

I have in the past heard of an x-ray examination of several of the early period swords in, I believe, the Met's collection showing that a signifigant number of the welds in many of the swords had not actually joined. The problem I see with your assertion is that a sword with bad welds may very well survive a parry when being tested early on but fail unexpectedly later. The distribution of quality should probably be that a few were excellent, some were good to better and many were sub-standard or schlock by the standards of today.

[Kuroshima]

Personally, the thing I would change in weapon skills would be to stop treating shields as something different to weapons. Unify shields and weapons. Remove the distinction between parry and block. A block is a parry with a shield. A parry is a block with a shield. You can add the the special rules to specific shields (I sincerely doubt that you can not parry a thrown object without penalties with a big weapon, while you can do so with a boss shield)