[Mass Combat] + [UT] + [BIO] : Mods to make Super-Soldier (+200%) units?

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by lexington

The Orion and the like are racial templates, aren't they? Being a SEAL is a combination of selecting for outliers in the population and then giving them specific training. To get an Orion soldier you should probably stack the Orion on top of something like a SEAL.

Err, why? The SEAL template seems to be appropriate specifically for denoting Elite-quality troops. OTOH, Super-Soldiers can be of ANY Troop Quality.

[lexington]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Err, why? The SEAL template seems to be appropriate specifically for denoting Elite-quality troops. OTOH, Super-Soldiers can be of ANY Troop Quality.

Maybe not SEALs in particular but soldiers do get training and should have higher average physical stats than the population they are taken from. Orions and the like are just racial templates, without any training. A better comparison would apply some effects for training to the supersoldiers.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by lexington

Maybe not SEALs in particular but soldiers do get training and should have higher average physical stats than the population they are taken from. Orions and the like are just racial templates, without any training. A better comparison would apply some effects for training to the supersoldiers.

I guess I should've been clearer. Here's what I'm trying to say:

All soldiers (we'll talk about riflemen for simplicity in this case) have some sort of training, unless they're totally inferior. It is assumed they have some points in Soldier, Rifle, Savoir-Faire (Military) etc., and likely Fit and/or HT+1. SEALs are totally realistically existing soldiers, and they have the SEAL Template; they are probably one of the archetypical Élite units. So,
Human Template + Average Soldier Template == Average-Quality Riflemen.
Human Template + Veteran Soldier Template == Good-Quality Riflemen.
Human Template + SEAL Template == Élite-Quality Riflemen.

Now, there's the Super-Soldier feature, which can be expressed with at least one template, so that:
Super-Soldier Template + Average Soldier Template == Average Super-Soldiers.
Super-Soldier Template + Good Soldier Template == Good Super-Soldiers
Super-Soldier Template + SEAL Template == Élite Super-Soldiers

The question is, what reasonable templates can 'bestow' the Super-Soldier feature, which are also compatible with the Troop Quality templates (but don't have overlapping traits, as then it would be impossible to construct an Élite Super-Soldier unit)?

[Sam Baughn]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

The question is, what reasonable templates can 'bestow' the Super-Soldier feature, which are also compatible with the Troop Quality templates (but don't have overlapping traits, as then it would be impossible to construct an Élite Super-Soldier unit)?

It might not be possible to make elite quality super-soldiers at TL9, since a good chunk of the upgrades possible at that TL are things which you should get from elite quality training / selection anyway, like Combat Reflexes. Even with cybernetic implants, I think that 'average' super-soldiers is about your limit at TL9 (especially since you presumably have a much smaller number of recruits to select from).

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Perfect Organism

It might not be possible to make elite quality super-soldiers at TL9, since a good chunk of the upgrades possible at that TL are things which you should get from elite quality training / selection anyway, like Combat Reflexes. Even with cybernetic implants, I think that 'average' super-soldiers is about your limit at TL9 (especially since you presumably have a much smaller number of recruits to select from).

Well, I doubt there is a reason why you can't keep training whatever Super-Soldiers you have up to Élite level. The question is, what is required to make a Super-Soldier in the first place*. A Riflemen squad has a base cost of 60k to Raise, and the Super-Soldier feature adds +200% to that cost, which means that for a mass-production sort of program, a single Super-Soldier costs +$12k per person modified. Seems a bit low, given the prices of biomods and cybermods in the techbooks.
Boosted Reflexes alone (+2 Basic Speed for 2FP/minute) cost $9k.
Subdermal Armour (8 DR vs Piercing and Cutting + 4 DR vs everything, both Tough Skin) is $2k.

* == If the requirements are extremely high, it might end up being impossible at TL9 without some handwaving, or altering the default GURPS tech progression.

[D10]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Well, I doubt there is a reason why you can't keep training whatever Super-Soldiers you have up to Élite level. The question is, what is required to make a Super-Soldier in the first place*. A Riflemen squad has a base cost of 60k to Raise, and the Super-Soldier feature adds +200% to that cost, which means that for a mass-production sort of program, a single Super-Soldier costs +$12k per person modified. Seems a bit low, given the prices of biomods and cybermods in the techbooks.
Boosted Reflexes alone (+2 Basic Speed for 2FP/minute) cost $9k.
Subdermal Armour (8 DR vs Piercing and Cutting + 4 DR vs everything, both Tough Skin) is $2k.

* == If the requirements are extremely high, it might end up being impossible at TL9 without some handwaving, or altering the default GURPS tech progression.

Probably time money and a very good program that gets the best of the best from a much bigger pool in the military.

You would probably get guys with many good atributes, Combat Reflexes, HPT, fit or very fit imo.

At a higher TL, I think all battles involving people shooting at people with guns are gonna be guerrila and attempts to take over facilities etc..

Might as well design them as super commandos, and focus on specific mods and training for each member of the unit so you can do more with less, maybe ?

[Anders Gabrielsson]

200% of 60k is 120k.

Otherwise, please carry on. I find this discussion interesting.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Anders Gabrielsson

200% of 60k is 120k.

Otherwise, please carry on. I find this discussion interesting.

In Mass Combat, a single Element of infantry (the unit for which the price is given) consists of 10 people.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

In Mass Combat, a single Element of infantry (the unit for which the price is given) consists of 10 people.

Actually, it's not always 10 people. It can be between something like 4 and 10 people. A super soldier (or special forces) element would probably have fewer people in it.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Langy

Actually, it's not always 10 people. It can be between something like 4 and 10 people. A super soldier (or special forces) element would probably have fewer people in it.

True, it can also be 15 people - MC says to treat as 10 in low-tech, and as a Squad in high-tech+. Anyway, reducing the number of super-soldiers in an element means having even better Super-Soldiers. Not sure if the best cost/TS improvement would be achieved if we assume 4-person squads.