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Old 05-06-2015, 07:21 AM   #11
Dingle
 
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Default Re: Limitations on super luck

I'm looking for a point value.

So PC A is mostly human, but can do unlikely things as though they were easy.

and PC B can't, because he bought extreme regeneration or something instead.

I started with the Super Luck advantage because it has a point cost.
I like the other methods (impulse buys etc.), but have no idea how to price them to balance against regular advantages.
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Old 05-06-2015, 08:10 AM   #12
johndallman
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Default Re: Limitations on super luck

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Originally Posted by Dingle View Post
What discount might you suggest for Super Luck (can't dictate 3 or 4)?
-10% seems about right.
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Old 05-06-2015, 08:49 AM   #13
evileeyore
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Default Re: Limitations on super luck

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingle View Post
I like the other methods (impulse buys etc.), but have no idea how to price them to balance against regular advantages.
You don't price Impulse Buys. They are either on (and everyone has them as a part of the rules set) or they are off.

Quote:
I'm looking for a point value.
[Can Only Roll A 5, -40%; Only On Skill Rolls, -40%] for a total of -80%.

You've practically gutted the Advantage. If I were in your game I'd prefer to buy regular Luck, at 15 points it's better.
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Old 05-06-2015, 09:09 AM   #14
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Default Re: Limitations on super luck

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
You don't price Impulse Buys. They are either on (and everyone has them as a part of the rules set) or they are off.


[Can Only Roll A 5, -40%; Only On Skill Rolls, -40%] for a total of -80%.

You've practically gutted the Advantage. If I were in your game I'd prefer to buy regular Luck, at 15 points it's better.
-40% is overboard on Roll 5. I went off the guidelines of powers when I said -5 to 15.

Even those two features combined wouldn't be more than -40%.

However, I agree, I'd use impulse buys.
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Old 05-06-2015, 10:03 AM   #15
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Default Re: Limitations on super luck

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Originally Posted by GodBeastX View Post
-40% is overboard on Roll 5. I went off the guidelines of powers when I said -5 to 15.
I could look it up, however I'm pricing it based on "How does it stack up with another cheaper Advantage" and the answer is "It doesn't".

And even then, only Roll 5 limits the options far more drastically than -5%. If the ability wasn't also being limited to only skill rolls it means you have a very narrow slice of the crit charts, is useless on damage rolls with more than 2 dice, can only be used to guarantee a Face shot on a random hit location, is terrible for Reaction Rolls (unless you want to anger the NPC you just met), etc.

In all cases I'd rather spend less points and get Luck. Even at -80% to Super Luck... I'd rather have Luck if SL was "Only Skills, Only Roll 5", as Luck does more.


Quote:
Even those two features combined wouldn't be more than -40%.
Actually "Reduced usage to less than 1/5 the time" is 40%, ie "Only During a Full Moon". Since there are so many rolls Super Luck is usable on (Skills, Damage, Crit Charts, Influence Rolls, Recovery Rolls, Not Dying Rolls, etc) it's really subpar to only give a 5% reduction.

It's the equivalent to saying "Only in Altered Form while Flying and playing a Trumpet on Tuesday" would be worth -10%... when "Only in Altered Form" is -10% on it's own.



Now I know, you're saying "But... it's making a single skill roll once an hour into a CRITICAL!".

With a skill of 15+, regular Luck can probably do that as well.

If not Impulse Buying is already in the base rules (Optional Sidebar B347) and I'd rather pay a few exp every few sessions (when I feel it's really needed) over the course of 40+ sessions than 85 points up front.

Or 60CP on Ridiculous Luck and have a very good shot at criting every 10 minutes...

Last edited by evileeyore; 05-06-2015 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 05-06-2015, 10:48 AM   #16
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Default Re: Limitations on super luck

Powers page 99 has the %'s of usable and modifier.

1% to 6% = 40% modifier.

So like I said, it wouldn't total to more than 40%.

If someone doesn't want to pay the 60 points up front, and buy each use for 2 CP at a time (Remember, turning a failure to a critical success is 2 points) then you are able to do that with impulse buys, but turning it to a 20 point advantage, it'd pay for itself in 10 uses, which is very small use.
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Old 05-06-2015, 12:24 PM   #17
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: Limitations on super luck

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
You don't price Impulse Buys. They are either on (and everyone has them as a part of the rules set) or they are off.
But that's not what the OP wants. That's not the kind of game that the OP wants to GM.
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Old 05-06-2015, 12:38 PM   #18
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Default Re: Limitations on super luck

I didn't intend to imply that it can only be used for skill rolls, but that is a really useful modifier to know the price of for luck or super luck.
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Old 05-06-2015, 02:04 PM   #19
evileeyore
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Default Re: Limitations on super luck

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Originally Posted by GodBeastX View Post
So like I said, it wouldn't total to more than 40%.
Except, as I've pointed out, it is really two separate modifiers, Can Only Roll 5 and Only On Skills 15+.


For Only On Rolls of 3 (by itself) I'd put it at -30% (you're limiting the breadth of non-skill usage). If it's combined with Only On Skills 15+, they'd both go to -40% each, as there's no fundamental difference between rolling a 3,4 or 5 for that skill, but for other skills there is a 'vast' difference.

For Only Skills I'd probably also put it at -30%. So yes, for Skills Only, 3 Only, I'd put it at -60%. It's about as useful as Extraordinary Luck, not as broad, but very potent in it's narrow field.

For Only Player Rolls... I'd have to do more thinking about how many non-Player rolls there are, but -10% feels right (as I can think of 2 off the top of my head). It's still very potent and you're only really limiting edge cases.

For Only GM Rolls... I'd ask what the Player wanted to control (Influence Rolls, or Sense Rolls are the only ones I can think of) and then point them at a Limited Alertness or Charisma as needed (say -60% Only For GM Rolls).


Quote:
If someone doesn't want to pay the 60 points up front, and buy each use for 2 CP at a time (Remember, turning a failure to a critical success is 2 points) then you are able to do that with impulse buys, but turning it to a 20 point advantage, it'd pay for itself in 10 uses, which is very small use.
Shrug. And Luck pays for itself in less time. As does Serendipity, as does Destiny... Hard To Kill may or may not pay for itself in one session if it's the right type of game (presuming purchase of more than one level).

That an Impulse Buy "Advantage" can pay for itself in 'CP Cost number of sessions' is not an issue to me.

The issue I have is for 20 points "Only Roll 5; Only On Skill 15+" is still less useful than Luck is.





Though, I now note it has occured to me the character I had that got all those crits from RLuck was in 3e... where crit chances were improved with incredibly high skills. So Luck might not hit crits as easily now. I hadn't "felt" the disparity as none of my players have bought skills that high... and I haven't played (just run) a 4e game yet.

Last edited by evileeyore; 05-06-2015 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 05-06-2015, 02:32 PM   #20
Dingle
 
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Default Re: Limitations on super luck

The reason I went with "can not say 3 or 4" was to remove the ability to get critical successes on unlikely rolls.

Allowing 5 still allows a critical success for skills 15+ due to the rules on high skill and critical success.
This is good because it allows the advantage to be used in high skill cases.

One way of comparing it to regular luck could be:
The probability of rolling a 5 or less on 3d6 is 4.62% = 0.0462
The probability of rolling nothing less than a 5 on 3d6 is 95.38% = 0.9538
The probability of rolling nothing less than a 5 on 3 rolls of 3d6 is 0.9538^3 = 0.8677 = 86.77%
Which is only a 13.23% chance of getting a critical

Even for high skills, regular luck can't guarantee success

Comparing to 60 point ridiculous luck:
Considering ridiculous luck gives 6 luck rolls per hour, and claiming it's a 0% modifier to say that they must all be used on the same roll instead of all on different rolls.
each reroll replaces 1 roll of 3d6 with three rolls of 3d6, which is 2 more.
Therefore 6 luck uses gives us the best of 13 rolls of 3d6.
The probability of getting nothing less than a 5 on this is 0.9538^13 = 0.5407
This means that 60 points of regular luck gives us a critical only 45.93% of the time.

Unfortunately, regular luck allows you to decide after rolling, which could well be a +300% cosmic modifier, and that makes the calculations questionable
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