Rulings for puissance and advanced firearms

[Kromm]

The rule is that if the Puissance enchantment is on the weapon, then each shot benefits.

Example 1: A pistol with damage 2d+2 pi, RoF 3, and Shots 15+1 can fire 16 times before reloading. When enchanted with Puissance +1, each of those 16 shots does 2d+3 pi, and the gunman can fire three of those per attack.

Example 2: An assault rifle with damage 5d+1 pi, RoF 10, and Shots 30 can fire 30 times before reloading. When enchanted with Puissance +1, each of those 30 shots does 5d+2 pi, and the gunman can fire 10 of those per attack.

Shotguns require more thought: If the bonus applies just once per shot, but each shot delivers a number of pellets, how should it work? Past rulings have said that the first hit gets the bonus and the others do regular damage. Thus, if a shotgun with damage 1d+1 pi and RoF 3×9 is enchanted with Puissance +1, the first hit from each shot fired (up to three shots in an attack) does 1d+2 pi while the rest (to a maximum of eight more pellets) do 1d+1 pi.

Explosives likewise require some thinking. Generally, though, it's fairest to ask the enchanter whether the spell boosts the explosion or the fragmentation. It can be cast twice to do both. Thus, 40mm grenade that normally does 4d-1 [2d] cr ex per shot does 4d [2d] cr ex per shot with Puissance +1 enhancing blast, 4d-1 [2d+1] cr ex per shot with Puissance +1 enhancing fragmentation, or 4d [2d+1] cr ex per shot with both.

The usual complaint about Puissance at high TLs is that it's a waste, because going from 5d+1 to 5d+2 on a bullet isn't nearly as useful as going from 1d+1 to 1d+2 on an arrow. This has often been house-ruled as +1 or +10%, whichever is better, on all damage rolls, rounded to the nearest whole number. Thus, with a single Puissance +1 enchantment, the pistol above would do 2d+3, the rifle would do 5d+3, the shotgun would get 1d+2 on each pellet, and the grenade would get 4d [2d+1].

[The Benj]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Shotguns require more thought: If the bonus applies just once per shot, but each shot delivers a number of pellets, how should it work? Past rulings have said that the first hit gets the bonus and the others do regular damage. Thus, if a shotgun with damage 1d+1 pi and RoF 3×9 is enchanted with Puissance +1, the first hit from each shot fired (up to three shots in an attack) does 1d+2 pi while the rest (to a maximum of eight more pellets) do 1d+1 pi.

Meh, I'm OK with it adding to each pellet. It doesn't seem too powerful and it means you can roll their damage all together.

[Quote]Explosives likewise require some thinking. Generally, though, it's fairest to ask the enchanter whether the spell boosts the explosion or the fragmentation. It can be cast twice to do both. Thus, 40mm grenade that normally does 4d-1 [2d] cr ex per shot does 4d [2d] cr ex per shot with Puissance +1 enhancing blast, 4d-1 [2d+1] cr ex per shot with Puissance +1 enhancing fragmentation, or 4d [2d+1] cr ex per shot with both.[quote]

I don't see a problem with Puissance on a grenade doing both, but I feel iffy about allowing the enchantment on the launcher, for reasons I'm finding hard to plumb.

The usual complaint about Puissance at high TLs is that it's a waste, because going from 5d+1 to 5d+2 on a bullet isn't nearly as useful as going from 1d+1 to 1d+2 on an arrow. This has often been house-ruled as +1 or +10%, whichever is better, on all damage rolls, rounded to the nearest whole number. Thus, with a single Puissance +1 enchantment, the pistol above would do 2d+3, the rifle would do 5d+3, the shotgun would get 1d+2 on each pellet, and the grenade would get 4d [2d+1].

How about a bonus equivalent to the one from Committed Attack? +1 per 2 dice (minimum 1) seems pretty reasonable.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by The Benj

How about a bonus equivalent to the one from Committed Attack? +1 per 2 dice (minimum 1) seems pretty reasonable.

That seems reasonable, and has the advantage of being easy to calculate on the fly. It is a bit more generous though, being roughly +14% instead of +10%.

[The Benj]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

That seems reasonable, and has the advantage of being easy to calculate on the fly. It is a bit more generous though, being roughly +14% instead of +10%.

It is, but given that much of the time on a fantasy weapon it'll be 15-40%, I'm okay with it.

[PseudoFenton]

If it's just adding +1, then it should just add +1. Fair is fair, and high rate of fire etc is just a product of the setting. That said, when it comes to the cost and quantity of ammunition used in firearms, there is some fairness to giving the benefit of the doubt towards enchanting the ammunition vs the weapon.

So for shotguns, I'd use the following method:
* If you enchant the gun, you get +1 on the first pellet of the first shot fired that hits (so firing both barrels at once from a sawn off just increases RoF but doesn't give +1 per shot).
* If you enchant an entire shell or slug, it gets +1 on the first pellet that hits, but if you unload more than one shot in an attack then each gets that bonus. For speed, you can always roll up all the damage at once, and then add the bonus at the end.
* If however you enchanted each pellet then each and every one gets the +1... which is mind-boggling expensive for what it's worth, but for some types of shot (especially with exotic ammunition type or when needing to shoot foes who require magical weapons to slay them) then it might well be worth it.

For other guns, I'd use a similar process. Just add +1 to the final damage amount when you've enchanted a gun and firing full-auto (ie, the first shot that lands in each second always gets the bonus, none of the others do). If you enchant the ammo it always gets the bonus unless its composed of multiple parts, in which case its just the first bit to cause injury that gets it.

Expanding this philosophy, a frag grenade enchanted once would just get the bonus to the explosion. If you took care to enchant the shell of it (which becomes the shrapnel) a number of times, then the first n bits to hit deal the extra damage.


This does make high TL enchanting prohibitively expensive and perhaps a little lack-lustre considering the proportionally low boost in damage - so you could apply the +10% damage rule to help elevate that. You could also just rescale the costs (manufacturing costs are lower, and factory based magical enchanting is no different), or just enforce magical firearms being a rarity (especially when specific monsters have magical weapons as their weak-spot).

Ultimately though, when it comes to questions like this, the counter-question is always "well what sort of assumptions is your setting making?" - because in answering that, you've answered the first question.

[Phoenix_Dragon]

Originally Posted by Kromm

The usual complaint about Puissance at high TLs is that it's a waste, because going from 5d+1 to 5d+2 on a bullet isn't nearly as useful as going from 1d+1 to 1d+2 on an arrow. This has often been house-ruled as +1 or +10%, whichever is better, on all damage rolls, rounded to the nearest whole number.

I'm probably going to end up doing that for all campaigns using the base magic system, myself. I've had several fantasy campaigns with rather high-point characters. When you've got characters swinging around 6-10d attacks, even a rather expensive +3 damage enchant is getting a bit on the insignificant side of things.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Kromm

This has often been house-ruled as +1 or +10%, whichever is better, on all damage rolls, rounded to the nearest whole number.

Why not just +1/die?

[Phoenix_Dragon]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Why not just +1/die?

My thoughts would be that, while it's nice and simple, it tends to greatly increase the damage even on low-range weapons. You only have to be ST13 to be rolling two dice on swing attacks before modifiers, and that's going to be a huge jump in effect. Doing it as "+10%, min 1" per level of enchantment means it's more gradual at the lower levels of damage, rather than jumping in sharp steps.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon

My thoughts would be that, while it's nice and simple, it tends to greatly increase the damage even on low-range weapons. You only have to be ST13 to be rolling two dice on swing attacks before modifiers, and that's going to be a huge jump in effect. Doing it as "+10%, min 1" per level of enchantment means it's more gradual at the lower levels of damage, rather than jumping in sharp steps.

Pretty much this. If the GM is limiting human ST to about 20 – which is common in low-tech fantasy – then swing damage is capped in the range of 3d. To a fair approximation, +10% is +1 there. This keeps the effects of Puissance flat in its "native" genre. The trouble with +1 per die (+28%) or per two dice (+14%) is that it starts to diverge from the spell even for ordinary muscle-powered weapons, which are the spell's baseline calibration. I suppose +1 per 3d would work, though.