Automatically makes all normal Vision rolls?

[JCurwen3]

On p. B118, automatically making all normal Vision rolls is deemed as useful as Unfazeable and thus worth 15 points (also, I guess Acute Vision is [2] per +1 to Vision rolls and Fearlessness is [2] per +1 to Fright Checks so they're definitely comparable).

What's a good name for this advantage, if you allowed it? What could someone with it not see? I assume anything that was covered or obscured, past the horizon, etc would not count. Alternatively all range penalties would effectively be moot. On the other hand, probably things too small to be seen, normally requiring Microscopic Vision, maybe wouldn't be affected? Thoughts?

[starslayer]

I am not sure I would allow it, since fright checks are normally not contests, but perception checks ARE- if I did allow it I would have it function identically to the 'no die roll required' enhancement- you roll, mark down margin of success for contests, but always assume that the skill use succeeded. Thus if your opponent has stealth 15, made there roll by 5 and you only make your roll by 2, you don't detect them. On the other hand if the opponent had stealth 10, and rolled a ten, and you failed your roll by 5; you still assume success and detect them.

You would therefore have no problem identifying anything you are SUPPOSED to see (or at least has not been purposely hidden) at extreme distance. As a gm it would then become very important to differentiate what is DIFFICULT to notice (large negative TDM) and what was purposely hidden (contest of skill). Finding firing pin from your rifle that you dropped in the woods; easy! If someone actually puts it under a rock, not so easy.

options:
->supreme perception
->unobfuscateable
->true sight

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

What's a good name for this advantage, if you allowed it? What could someone with it not see? I assume anything that was covered or obscured, past the horizon, etc would not count. Alternatively all range penalties would effectively be moot. On the other hand, probably things too small to be seen, normally requiring Microscopic Vision, maybe wouldn't be affected? Thoughts?

I would apply all penalties as normal, if your effective skill is 3 or higher you see it, if your effective skill is 2 or lower you don't.

[Joel]

I don't think you'd get something like all range penalties being ignored, for one thing that would let you spot people on the moon which isn't exactly normal.

It should be less usefull than automatic success on vision rolls with an effective skill of 3 or more, which IMO should be about 40 points.*

*Acute Vision 1 is basically Reliable 1 for Vision, at 2 points, and Cosmic: No Roll is 20x the cost of Reliable 1.

[swampthing]

Originally Posted by Joel

I don't think you'd get something like all range penalties being ignored, for one thing that would let you spot people on the moon which isn't exactly normal.

It should be less usefull than automatic success on vision rolls with an effective skill of 3 or more, which IMO should be about 40 points.*

*Acute Vision 1 is basically Reliable 1 for Vision, at 2 points, and Cosmic: No Roll is 20x the cost of Reliable 1.

Given that reasoning, how is Unfazeable not also 40 points?

[cccwebs]

The keyword is normal. So, for 15 points a character could automatically make all Vision rolls to see anything that doesn't have total modifiers reducing the target number to below 3.

[Extrarius]

I would rule the 15 point version covers seeing anything that wouldn't involve a contest (anything that is not camouflaged or otherwise hidden) as long as the target number is 3+

I might call the advantage something like "Observant"

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by cccwebs

The keyword is normal. So, for 15 points a character could automatically make all Vision rolls to see anything that doesn't have total modifiers reducing the target number to below 3.

And of course fails any contested roll. So hyper observant but easy to sneak up on. That is why no roll required is useless for many abilities, because it sucks for resisted abilities.

[lexington]

Originally Posted by blacksmith

And of course fails any contested roll.

What? Why?

At a minimum you should get a normal resistance roll involving vision.

[cccwebs]

Originally Posted by blacksmith

And of course fails any contested roll. So hyper observant but easy to sneak up on. That is why no roll required is useless for many abilities, because it sucks for resisted abilities.

Why? There's nothing that indicates that the character still wouldn't make die rolls for "resisted" uses of Vision (quick contests and such). I think you're ignoring the normal keyword.