02-22-2011, 05:03 AM | #41 | |
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Germany
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Re: Who actually uses the multiplicative Modifiers from Powers?
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Explosives or area effects don't really miss, they just go off at a certain distance. especially if it is a grenade launcher, which I think shoots more in a ballistic curve than in a straight line, you'd effectively have the big majority of all your shots hitting their target. Normal rapid fire is already pretty abusable but with that, you could do tons of damage way too cheaply. What I think does not make sense is combining the game mechanics of rapid fire and area attack, I think they just don't mesh at all. You'd have to break the rather elegant approach of resolving rapid fire in a single attack in favour of making an attack with each shot to get the scatter rules into the mix in the first place AND you'd have to make a very steep cost adjustment as well. Rapid fire ends up costing 1% for each extra shot. Even when you use purely multiplicative modifiers, you'd end up with a grand bargain.effectively, you can bombard a huge area with cheap bombs. And the point remains, emanation rapid fire does not work mechanically at all. Emanation has no attack roll. Regarding ignores DR: well, my point was, that it can be point efficient on small attacks, but most of the time gets trumped by just increasing base damage to blaze through the DR. Sorry if that was unclear, I just wanted to say that even with low damage I see it as not that useful, at least on an innate attack (afflictions of course can make use of it, even though they usually do better with the proper malediction) Regarding Rapid fire: Umh, I have no idea what flamer autofire rules are, but I think you have to explain to me how a rapid fire ability was not extremely efficient, unless you forced him to always stay at the bottom of the rate of fire margins. Granted, rapid fire truly does deserve fully multiplicative modifiers, but, no, when I look at stuff like cyclic, sense based, certain maledicition builds and most of the cosmic enhancements, I don't really want to go there without some major overhauling. If you use multiplicative modifiers, you basically have to sign the proclamation that every enhancement over +100% is crassly underpriced and make a very clear understanding of which modifiers should be grouped and which not. For example, does each level of area effect count as x1,5, or do you first add them up and then multiply? Multiplicative Modifiers from Powers at least have rather good overlap... |
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02-22-2011, 05:17 AM | #42 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Who actually uses the multiplicative Modifiers from Powers?
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02-22-2011, 05:51 AM | #43 | |
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Re: Who actually uses the multiplicative Modifiers from Powers?
There are some issues, but I wouldn't consider them major.
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So: 50 points (+300%, -90%) would result in a final cost of [39] instead of the [40] the standard Multiplicative Modifiers would give. (Contrasted with the final cost of [155] the default rules would give.) |
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02-22-2011, 04:30 PM | #44 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Who actually uses the multiplicative Modifiers from Powers?
I use a slightly modified version of multiplicative modifiers. If the total limitations come to -80% or less, I use multiplicative modifiers as written. If the total exceeds that mark, I first use the excess to cancel out as much of the Enhancements as possible, but no more. Then I divide what's left by 5.
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02-22-2011, 07:26 PM | #45 | |
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hong Kong
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Re: Who actually uses the multiplicative Modifiers from Powers?
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02-23-2011, 12:29 AM | #46 | |||||
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Re: Who actually uses the multiplicative Modifiers from Powers?
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The other part is, you're likely to start hitting things far afield of the target :J In order to get that 1% per shot, your last shot is going to roll scatter with a -299 penalty if you're using a freaky superscience grenade launcher, and several times that for something launching actual grenades. Just how far are you from this target if you're using a low-powered lobbing grenade launcher? Quote:
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The only weird one is gadget lims, which I combine because they tend to require each other, and that tends to actually work because of differential enforcement. The gadget lims assume a degree of nonenforcement, but a hefty mix of gadget lims is likely to actually get enforced.
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02-23-2011, 04:21 AM | #47 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Germany
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Re: Who actually uses the multiplicative Modifiers from Powers?
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It is minor enough I think not to be abusive. Quote:
If you apply the rest in anoher multiplicative step, thus making it like: x: Limitation value expressed as decimal b: cost of the ability prior to applying limitations c: final cost y: limitations in excess of the 80% limit as decimal c=b*0,2*y ...which I think would be too much given how point efficient the multiplicative mods already are. @Darekun: Umh, okay, then I think you see why I am against combining those two under the standard rules? ^^ () Really, if you want to simulate such an effect, ust make a big area effect / explosion with high damage and then give it an armour divisor. Same effect (Lethal against targets without proper amour), much sounder mathematics. I mean, you do see that you have to include new assumptions which clearly aren't covere din the rules and you also see that you'd suddenly have scatter way out of proportion, right? Umh, wait, your player missed a lot with the rapid fire bonus at hitting? Eh, okay, how would that not have been even worse with any other kind of attack? I mean, once his character reaches the stage where rapid fire gives a bonus to hit, he effectively has one bonus hit for every point of hit bonus (if he has recoil 1). He'd have missed without the rapid fire, so, I think I don't quite see the problem... and collateral damage... well, true, you usually will be in danger of hitting anyone in his line of attack, but then again, that can be another enemy just as well. Actually, the rules by default are rather generous for not giving you "extra spread" for hitting the wrong target when it is a rapid fire attack. ...and that character still has the ability to hit multiple targets or cover an area... I mean, sure, if the player expected to always get lucky and score many extra hits but ended up with bad luck on the dice rolls, well, that happens, but it would have been even worse with a non rapid fiore attack without the hit bonus. |
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02-23-2011, 05:09 AM | #48 | |||||
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Re: Who actually uses the multiplicative Modifiers from Powers?
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He was having her Aim a lot to try to improve hit rates, but given how expensive the ability was, going with a "mere" +10 Acc probably would've let her afford another level of modified ATR, for two ROF: 10 Aimed salvos per second, each more than 50% better than her high-ROF salvos. Even the ROF: 10 is a saturation-fire build, so I'm not saying Rapid Fire sucks. But high-ROF attacks are pretty realistic, and in reality they mainly get used for suppressive fire and area fire. (Well, realistic for serial attacks. They're pretty inaccurate at parallel attacks. You'd have to divide down Rcl well below 1, or something.) The problem with collateral damage was more trashing buildings; 200+ hits with her weapon sprayed across a building section would probably bring down the section. Even spread across three or four, there was a decent chance.
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02-23-2011, 09:35 AM | #49 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Who actually uses the multiplicative Modifiers from Powers?
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02-23-2011, 09:43 AM | #50 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
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Re: Who actually uses the multiplicative Modifiers from Powers?
The same things they usually mean.
firing 9 bullets in serial fires 1 bullet at a time in succession, 9 times: Code:
YOU: - - - - - - - - - VICTIM Code:
- - - - YOU: - VICTIM - - - - Only they aren't in a cone, they're in a tight bunch. But hopefully you get the idea.
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Tags |
affliction, enhancemens, limitations, multiplicative, multiplicative modifiers |
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