Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-17-2015, 09:38 PM   #11
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Burnsville, MN
Default Re: Velocity of incoming attack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Some skills, probably including all unarmed skills and Acrobatics (this would be instead of the current Acrobatic Dodge!), would allow a dodge at 3 + skill/2; otherwise, you'd be working from Basic Speed+3.
I'd probably allow 3+Skill/2 to make a Weapon Dodge to avoid a Beat or a force sword - get it the heck out of the way sorta stuff. Yes, that's basically the same as Parry, in level, but with special effects that make it a Dodge.
__________________
Gaming Ballistic, LLC
DouglasCole is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2015, 07:30 AM   #12
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Velocity of incoming attack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Evasive movement would automatically give you a penalty to attack that turn
I'd try something along the lines of making this a scale, -4 to +4 or maybe a bit more, and use this "Evasiveness" or "Aggressiveness" setting to replace the set of graduated attack maneuvers (All-out Attack, Committed, regular, Defensive Attack, All-out D). Aggressiveness adds to your attack skill but subtracts from your defense. The bonus applies to melee as well as ranged. "Dodge" isn't an "active" defense, but it's always available as the last recourse to see if your evasive movement saves you if you don't take an active defense.
Anaraxes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2015, 09:26 AM   #13
Andreas
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Default Re: Velocity of incoming attack?

Velocity really does make a huge difference. While it is not entirely imporssible to dodge the line of aim from a gun, it is far harder to do than dodging an arrow moving at reasonable velocities. Distance to the origin of the attack also matters a lot. For example it is possible to dodge a supersonic bullet from a sniper, if the sniper is very far away and you are watching for the muzzle flash with a pair of binoculars, so the single most relevant number should be how much time passes after you spot or predict the attack.

The size of this time would determine a penalty or bonus to your dodge roll. There should also be some sort of evasive moment you could use to make it harder to hit you with attacks as described in Krom's post. This approach makes it quite straightforward to determine how difficult it is to avoid the attacks of speedsters. Divide the time you have to react to their attacks by their level of ATR. It also makes it rather easy to directly implement the effect of things like a combat precognition advantage. Add a constant amount of time for all attacks.

Last edited by Andreas; 12-18-2015 at 09:30 AM.
Andreas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2015, 09:39 AM   #14
Lord Azagthoth
 
Lord Azagthoth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Helmouth, The Netherlands
Default Re: Velocity of incoming attack?

As a houserule, I only allow a Dodge when they can see the shooter clearly. They might anitcipate on the shooter's body movement and Dodge at the right time (e.g., see when his arm muscles tension). Sometimes they must make a PER roll when the shooter is some distance away, smoke is obscuring sight, etc.
__________________
May the Force be with us all

Dark Lord Azagthoth

Star Wars - TRPG
Lord Azagthoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2015, 11:30 AM   #15
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Velocity of incoming attack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
Velocity really does make a huge difference.
Well, not for avoiding point of aim; it just makes it easier to dodge the actual attack. Basically, to dodge, you have to move out of the way in the time between the attacker's final aim correction and the attack hitting. For a projectile with zero time of flight, that typically gives you on the order of 200 milliseconds; if the attack has a non-zero flight time, you get more time (and no amount of attacker skill will compensate). If your attacker's point of aim is invisible, you have to guess; if point of aim will only be visible at some later time (for example, visible projectiles with a non-zero flight time) you can either dodge by guessing, or you can wait until the target can be determined and move after doing so.

This is all visible in FPS games. They generally don't animate with enough precision to determine exact aim point, and hitscan weapons have no effective time of flight (the animation is sometimes non-instantaneous), but you can still execute popups, duck out of the way when someone is looking at you, and move erratically.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2015, 12:01 PM   #16
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyv, Ukraine
Default Re: Velocity of incoming attack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
if the attack has a non-zero flight time, you get more time (and no amount of attacker skill will compensate)
Unless one does a Deceptive Attack / Ranged Feint. And reportedly people do that even with something as slow as a Quake Rocket Launcher.
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2015, 12:25 PM   #17
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Velocity of incoming attack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Unless one does a Deceptive Attack / Ranged Feint.
The basic mechanic of a feint is that you are trying to pull people out of balance or position so it takes them longer to execute a defense, and it's only valuable in a fairly narrow range of attack timings (less than a certain value and you don't need to bother, above a certain value and they can still succeed even if they're deceived). It's also irrelevant to simple erratic movement, since that's not reacting to you in the first place.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2015, 03:20 PM   #18
Verjigorm
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Charlotte, North Caroline, United States of America, Earth?
Default Re: Velocity of incoming attack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Azagthoth View Post
As a houserule, I only allow a Dodge when they can see the shooter clearly. They might anitcipate on the shooter's body movement and Dodge at the right time (e.g., see when his arm muscles tension). Sometimes they must make a PER roll when the shooter is some distance away, smoke is obscuring sight, etc.
How do you model someone who is popping out from cover for a small fraction of a second, then popping back into cover? Or someone who is constantly shifting position through-out a second, making an erratic and difficult to predict target?
__________________
Hydration is key
Verjigorm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2015, 07:13 PM   #19
Lord Azagthoth
 
Lord Azagthoth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Helmouth, The Netherlands
Default Re: Velocity of incoming attack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Unless one does a Deceptive Attack / Ranged Feint. And reportedly people do that even with something as slow as a Quake Rocket Launcher.
With such a weapon, you aim at the ground near your target, not at your target itself. Only thing he can do is jump away to get out of the blast radius (hoping he can jump farther than the blast radius killing zone is).
__________________
May the Force be with us all

Dark Lord Azagthoth

Star Wars - TRPG
Lord Azagthoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2015, 07:18 PM   #20
Lord Azagthoth
 
Lord Azagthoth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Helmouth, The Netherlands
Default Re: Velocity of incoming attack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verjigorm View Post
How do you model someone who is popping out from cover for a small fraction of a second, then popping back into cover? Or someone who is constantly shifting position through-out a second, making an erratic and difficult to predict target?
Those might come as a surprise (if the target doesn't know he is there) or else, they can do a Dodge, because he is popping into sight (if they look in the right direction). Some circumstancial modifiers will apply but the shooter cannot use his acc and scope (if any) from its weapon while the target might be zigzagging towards his location, expecting an attack any time.
__________________
May the Force be with us all

Dark Lord Azagthoth

Star Wars - TRPG
Lord Azagthoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
active defense, deflections, dodge, dodge this, gunplay, stops

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.