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Old 12-19-2015, 02:17 PM   #31
vicky_molokh
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Default Re: Velocity of incoming attack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Feints cannot hit, do not consume ammunition, do not unready a weapon, and do not consume a target's parries or blocks. Deceptive attack at best describes a very limited category of forcing, which has uses other than hitting.
Well, 'Forcing attacks' normally cannot hit either, because one only uses them against targets who can semi-reliably dodge a first attack, and Forcing Attacks sacrifice probability to hit with the first attack in a chain in order to decrease probability of Dodge against a second or third. Feints don't normally consume Blocks/Parries, but a Feint that is Victorious By Four is effectively as good as consuming one AD, even better.
So the big difference is spending ammo.
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Old 12-19-2015, 02:47 PM   #32
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Default Re: Velocity of incoming attack?

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Feints don't normally consume Blocks/Parries, but a Feint that is Victorious By Four is effectively as good as consuming one AD, even better.
Not in a situation with multiple combatants (or multiple attacks from a single combatant).
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Old 12-19-2015, 02:54 PM   #33
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Default Re: Velocity of incoming attack?

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Not in a situation with multiple combatants (or multiple attacks from a single combatant).
Conditional. There are ways of passing Feints to an ally, and of making it apply to multiple attacks in a single turn of action.
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Old 12-19-2015, 03:08 PM   #34
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Default Re: Velocity of incoming attack?

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
It has. Feints. And Deceptive Attacks that are described as one fake attack combined with a real one in a single big-A Attack. But they're sorta-attacks that don't Unready a weapon in Mle, yet don't waste ammo in ranged combat. Wasting ammo is the big difference.
Setup Attacks serve that purpose to some extent. People looking for various options like that to really check out the articles that I wrote that cover some of these issues. Dodge this, on target, and delayed gratification are all addressing solutions to some of the problems from this thread
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Old 12-20-2015, 04:10 PM   #35
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Default Re: Velocity of incoming attack?

An idea for incoming attacks at high speeds.... use the Size and Speed/Range Table.

If someone fires a .308 at 1,500 yards away ad the bullet has a velocity of mach 3 then the modifier for your Dodge is:
  • Size: -14
  • Speed: -16
  • Range:+17

You can make a Dodge-15 roll. Good luck at dodging that.
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Old 12-20-2015, 04:30 PM   #36
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Default Re: Velocity of incoming attack?

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Originally Posted by Lord Azagthoth View Post
An idea for incoming attacks at high speeds.... use the Size and Speed/Range Table.
Y'all seriously need to just go read Dodge This, Pyr #3/57: Gunplay.

Here's GURPS Ultra-Tech author Ken Peters (Tzeentch on these forums) summarizing the article:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Peters
Dodge This Douglas "Crunch King (in training)" Cole wrote this article to address the common question of "why is it so easy to dodge ranged attacks in GURPS?" After all, even in Rifts you have that -10 to dodge and that's hardly a paragon of realism!
Well, he breaks it down for you. So complete is the article that I don't really know what else to say. IF a player ever gripes about the dodge rules, especially the notes from Tactical Shooting, I'll just print this off and hand it to them without saying a word. Maybe a grunt of command to actually read the entire thing.
What's also interesting is that he extends the rules for Parry, Block and Dodge to cover all sorts of ranged attacks (and not just thrown weapons) - even spells!

I reviewed my own article here.

Apoc527 (Jake Bernstein) used the rules in play, and reviewed them as well.

While it is certainly true that I'm tooting my own horn here, I had some of the same issues as the original poster in a game where it very much felt like we were just dodging laser beams as if we were in bullet time. Yes, you can put it down to "you're dodging the point of aim," but it doesn't feel that way in play.

This is very much because you roll to hit, then only if you hit do you have to roll to dodge or block or whatever.

So let me break down the article for you. The issue is one of my favorites of all Pyr volume 3, so there's plenty more there, including a comprehensive look at bleeding-edge TL8 tech by the aforementioned Ken Peters.


Introductory Paragraph: explains that the results tend to work from a math perspective, but that doesn't mean it doesn't feel wrong. There's a boxtext that goes into detail on why the math actually works like reality says it does.

Keen Eyes and Fast Reflexes: Talks about the importance of Perception and perception rolls in keeping gunfights sane. You can't dodge/block/parry what you can't see coming, and while 'dodge the line of aim' is fine, you also have to see that to do it.

Bob and Weave: Presents a variant on Move and Attack that gives "I'm making myself harder to hit."

Active Defenses: unpacks both seeing the incoming projectile (where that's important) as well as intercepting it. The rules get close enough to the guidance in Parry Missile Weapons to support a claim of a "unified" system. It covers Dodge, Block, Parry, cover, and how these rules interact with spells as ranged weapons.

Summary Tables: Presents a set of penalties to perception based on key parameters such as projectile size and speed. Also presents a summary of penalties based on projectile speed. Uses the Size and Speed/Range table to get it done.
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Last edited by DouglasCole; 12-20-2015 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 12-20-2015, 10:20 PM   #37
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Default Re: Velocity of incoming attack?

Good review of things--when I start my next GURPS campaign, I'll have to remember it all again! Dodge This! will definitely feature in my TL8 conspiracy/horror/Action/Monster Hunting campaign.
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Old 12-21-2015, 07:00 AM   #38
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Default Re: Velocity of incoming attack?

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Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
The where you can't dodge attacks from behind really ruins my suspension of disbelief . . . . having seen enough animals running away from me (including delicious ones I might like to shoot and eat), and also that animals often try to flee other animals according to nature shows, the idea that magically you lose your ability to dodge in such circumstances drives me batty
That's actually a good point.

However, generally when an animal is running away it is doing something akin to the 'evasive action' that kromm just suggested. The animal is not specifically dodging you so much as trying to not be in a consistent location at all (and probably burning FP on a mad sprint to get an extra -1 for its speed modifier which would already be a -3 or so)

Though as a nod to the rules- most animals which are good for eating have wide peripheral vision, and flexible necks, which allows them to have their back to you, but still be able to see you clearly (and thus would be able to make dodges); combine with the penalty to hit for range and for animal speed and shooting the target gets much harder. Perhaps a rule that if a target is moving quickly you need to succeed on a per based rifle skill roll in order to anticipate target location enough to make an aimed shot.
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