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Old 08-23-2012, 08:48 PM   #1
Edeldhur
 
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Default "Super-archer" vs. "Super-normal archer"?

Hello all,

I have recently started a thread regarding creating a "super mage" for a 250 point fantasy setting GMed by a friend of mine [http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=94617] - today we had the opportunity to play through our first session and I found it to be somewhat disappointing:

- using the "powers as spells" proved to be very limited as far as what i believe the versatility of a mage character should be, but i guess i was unable to take my point across to the GM.
- bottom line, i did not have much fun with the mechanics, and the very reduced amount of available abilities, and since roleplaying is about having fun I started looking in other directions

I have always been a fan of ranged characters, and our group surely lacks one, so I started inclining towards the Archer/Scout Type.

I have been through Divine Fantasy 1, Basic Set, Martial Arts, the forums around here and a few ideas caught my eye:

- The scout as in DF1 is very appealing to me since I really like characters with a lot of skills and versatility;
- I read a post about imbuements and archery which left me really curious, even though i really do not master the rules that much [http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...er%22+points];
- I found this link [http://www.mygurps.com/r_archer.html?p=ihradtgvo&v=0], which shows the basis for a surprising Archer build which seemed to show again much of that versatility that appeals to me (now in the shape of plenty attack possibilities and combinations - even though it would have to be seriously toned down to fit 250 points);

Looking at these three, I guess my questions would be:

- Is the scout a viable character (mainly damage wise, since the damage from pure arrows does not ever seem to be that high?)
- Can this be somehow offset by using bows tailored to accommodate higher str modifiers for example?
- From your experience, how do imbuements fare vs. simply using the multiple alternative attacks as shown in the post below? Is it a drastic difference?
- Maybe the best option would be a combination of the above? Or would it simply cause dispersion in the character build?
- Last but not least, and since I haven't played much Fantasy themed GURPS games, do you think the different ways to build an archer shown above condition a lot the playstyle?

Thank you for any possible feedback and your opinions regarding this one.

Edeldhur
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:02 PM   #2
Anthony
 
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Default Re: "Super-archer" vs. "Super-normal archer"?

The issue might not be with getting the point across, as much as the GM just not wanting to have mages with that level of flexibility. In any case, while it may be possible to make a super-normal archer who's effective (it depends on the overall power level), innate attack will under most circumstances perform better.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:34 PM   #3
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Default Re: "Super-archer" vs. "Super-normal archer"?

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
The issue might not be with getting the point across, as much as the GM just not wanting to have mages with that level of flexibility. In any case, while it may be possible to make a super-normal archer who's effective (it depends on the overall power level), innate attack will under most circumstances perform better.
Yeah, innate attack 10 is hits freaking hard at TL 3/4. And costs 50 points. If you want to get that much damage out of strength... good luck. Also what did the GM have the problem with? Your specific build having versatility, or any build having versatility. The build you posted wasn't very versatile. He had a handful of powers. To build a versatile magic as powers mage you need modular abilities.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:19 PM   #4
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Default Re: "Super-archer" vs. "Super-normal archer"?

Does this game permit the mage to buy Modular Abilities to provide that versatility? Also, Alternative Abilities and Alternative Attacks can get you more abilities for fewer points.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:42 PM   #5
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Default Re: "Super-archer" vs. "Super-normal archer"?

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Does this game permit the mage to buy Modular Abilities to provide that versatility? Also, Alternative Abilities and Alternative Attacks can get you more abilities for fewer points.
Yeah. Many GMs find Modualr abilities too vesatile or powerful.
AA though reigns it in but till gives you significant versatility/
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: "Super-archer" vs. "Super-normal archer"?

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Yeah. Many GMs find Modualr abilities too vesatile or powerful.
Oddly enough, it's the basic use of modular abilities (skills and mental advantages) that's overpowered, using modular abilities for advantages is pretty marginal efficiency.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: "Super-archer" vs. "Super-normal archer"?

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Oddly enough, it's the basic use of modular abilities (skills and mental advantages) that's overpowered, using modular abilities for advantages is pretty marginal efficiency.
Using them for beneficial afflictions is pretty bad/good too.
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Old 08-24-2012, 12:21 AM   #8
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Default Re: "Super-archer" vs. "Super-normal archer"?

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Oddly enough, it's the basic use of modular abilities (skills and mental advantages) that's overpowered, using modular abilities for advantages is pretty marginal efficiency.
Its not the efficency that makes them scary its the versatility and risk of game stopping due to calculating a power on the fly.
Personally I think Wild Card Powers are often a better deal point wise.
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Old 08-24-2012, 12:56 AM   #9
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Default Re: "Super-archer" vs. "Super-normal archer"?

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Originally Posted by Lamech View Post
Yeah, innate attack 10 is hits freaking hard at TL 3/4. And costs 50 points. If you want to get that much damage out of strength... good luck. Also what did the GM have the problem with? Your specific build having versatility, or any build having versatility. The build you posted wasn't very versatile. He had a handful of powers. To build a versatile magic as powers mage you need modular abilities.
Ok, so then I guess then that as far as sheer damage goes, in the end there is no competition with Innate Attack - let me place another question, if running a DF1 Scout like character, isn't it more likely that you will end with not only a higher DX, but also an higher Bow (for example) skill more easily (since it would seem that one way or the other innate attacks and powers end up consuming a good chunk of the character points)?

And having a higher skill and stat would mean that you can more easily place shots at specific body locations, going for extra damage in the head or vitals. Is this not noticeable or just not worth it?

Even so... I guess an innate attack at 10d vs.... what would be a realistic expected damage for a scout/archer as in DF1 or similar? 2-3d? Even if always targeting specific locations it probably does not compensate all the possible effects that can be associated to an Innate attack.
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Old 08-24-2012, 01:42 AM   #10
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Default Re: "Super-archer" vs. "Super-normal archer"?

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Its not the efficency that makes them scary its the versatility and risk of game stopping due to calculating a power on the fly.
Personally I think Wild Card Powers are often a better deal point wise.
Only being able to take from a pre-defined list would help a lot.
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