Berserk and Jet Attacks

[Black Leviathan]

I keep reading "Berserk and Jet Packs" and I think that's going to be a encounter now..

[Black Leviathan]

Originally Posted by Plane

If Berserker MO is to avoid penalties at all costs to avoid wasting ammunition on misses, then why "Step and Attack" rather than "Step and Aim"?

Partially because Aim isn't an available maneuver Rules as Written, but also I see a nuanced difference between a berserker stopping to calculate barrel inclination to compensate for shot drop and estimating the spin from his barrel to evaluate a clean shot versus a berserker realizing that barreling forward is going to make the boomy thing all shakey so he can't put the killy hole in Mr Stupid over there.

But I think All-Out Attack concentrated is an eloquent solution. It allows more aggressive forward movement, the concentrated attack can be an expression of the berserker's singular focus ignoring other potential threats.

Id even allow a berserker to ready-and-attack with a ranged weapon in place of a double-attack, to short-cut a ready action drawing a ranged weapon that would be verboten to someone gone Berserk.

I'm in favor of Berserkers solving rules uncertainty with All-out-Attack in almost every situation..

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

Aim isn't an available maneuver Rules as Written,

It's explicitly not allowed, true.

The basic "Attack" maneuver doesn't appear to be explicitly allowed, though.

It's basically like "Change Posture" or "Concentrate" or "Ready" or "All-Out Defence"

None of these are actually forbidden at all, so in theory you should be able to do them when you are not forced to do something else.

The idea that a Berserker can't Concentrate/Ready/ChangePosture/All-Out Defend originates from their ONLY being able to select All-Out Attack, a condition which only applies to them when a foe is in range of their hand (melee) weapon.

However, when that 1st condition doesn't apply, a 2nd does:
"must use a Move maneuver to get as close as possible"

It's an either/or: either someone's in range and you must AOA, or someone's not in range and you must Move. The "and if you can" footnote seems to just treat M&A as a Move subset.

The "you may attack with a ranged weapon" note in the 2nd bullet doesn't actually say anything about different maneuver options. So it doesn't mean for example, that a wizard can use a Concentrate maneuver to create a fireball: he has to either Move or Move and Attack.

That's clearly why you can't Aim and can't Reload (ie Ready) : because those can't be done in a "Move and Attack" maneuver.

If we can suddenly make Attack maneuvers at >20 yards because they're not explicitly denied, then the same would apply to Concentrate or All-Out Defence, as they aren't explicitly denied either.

Berserkers can't even "Do Nothing" if they get hurt, since they're immune to stun, unless you count that as a maneuver taken when someone is knocked unconscious.

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

I see a nuanced difference between a berserker stopping to calculate barrel inclination to compensate for shot drop and estimating the spin from his barrel to evaluate a clean shot versus a berserker realizing that barreling forward is going to make the boomy thing all shakey so he can't put the killy hole in Mr Stupid over there.

If he can realize that for guns, why can't he realize that for melee weapons and avoid using Move and Attack for -4? He's forced to take that -4 when it's a melee weapon. IE the Shredder's mindless charge at Splinter at end of 1st TMNT movie.

Actually in reviewing B365 ... here's a comparison we can make...

with a ranged weapon, the M&A penalty might be as little as 2.

If we know that a Berserker is forced to attack at -4 in melee if he can, then we should at least force them to attack at -4 at ranged if they can, but maybe allow them the choice to forgoe it at greater distances.

So if they're using a weapon with bulk 2 or less (a mere -2 to hit instead of the -4 for melee weapons) then they should be forced to make an attack when they get another -2 from Speed/Range penalties.

B550 has that happen when you get within 4-5 yards.

If however it was a Bulk 3 weapon, you could hold out until close enough to get a -1, which happens when you within 3 yards.

If it was a Bulk 4 weapon, you could hold off until you got within 2 yards.

You could tweak this a bit if you mandate taking AOA:Determined by incorporating that +1 into the "net minus 4" consideration, which would shift that up a level:
*bulk 1-2 = 6-7y
*bulk 3 = 4-5y
*bulk 4 = 3y
*bulk 5 = 2y

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

But I think All-Out Attack concentrated is an eloquent solution. It allows more aggressive forward movement, the concentrated attack can be an expression of the berserker's singular focus ignoring other potential threats.

It's certainly better than allowing a normal attack maneuver. If they can't do that in HTH then I don't like them being able to do it at range.

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

Id even allow a berserker to ready-and-attack with a ranged weapon in place of a double-attack, to short-cut a ready action drawing a ranged weapon that would be verboten to someone gone Berserk.

Reloading is allowed ("can take no more than one second") so it seems like you would be able to use Ready in that situation.

"Once your gun is empty, you must either draw another gun or charge into melee combat" sounds like it would only apply if it takes 2+ seconds to reload the weapon.

The greened highlights another situation: you might also be able to use a Ready maneuver in this case, to draw a gun out of a holster. However I think it's reasonable to assume that like reloading a gun, this is only possible if it takes 1 second or less, so no drawing weapons if it takes 2 or more seconds to draw them?

Actually, paying closer attention to this 2nd column's phrase (reddened) I think I just proved myself wrong about the need to be approaching an enemy... if it's the lack of easily-drawn ranged weapons which causes a "must... charge into melee" condition, this implies you're not already obligatorily charging into melee range...

Which I think means that so long as you have a ranged weapon in-hand or 1-second-draw-away then the 2nd bullet overrides the 1st bullet's commandment to use a Move maneuver to get closer...

Meaning you could indeed take a "Step" maneuver such as Attack, in place of Move and Attack. You couldn't take Committed Attack since that's melee-only (unless you use Doug Cole's version, which is awesome) nor All-Out Defense because that violates the "you blaze away" commandment.

Ready maneuvers would also be banned (ie readying a shield) except in the specific instance where we're told about stuff that's okay: reloading a gun in 1 second, or grabbing a new gun (probably also in 1 second, but not specified). Here these are temporarily available since they directly support the "you blaze away" intention for the next turn.

Fast-Draw (B194-195) is called out, a success shaves 1 second off reload times, which B270 says are listed in parenthesis after Shots. This would mean (B276) that reloading Crossbows are still off limits (they take 3 seconds, 4 minus 1) and on B278, guns are off since they are 3 minus 1= still 2 seconds.

It might be okay to let a spellcaster use "Concentrate" for JUST 1 turn (say to prep a small fireball, no using Enlarge, takes too long!) on the same grounds, if it can be perceived as "without thought". But can it?

Creating a fireball in the normal fashion is probably always more thoughtful than reloading a gun or grabbing a new gun. Maybe instead, it should only be allowed if you're using an Enchanted Item to cast the spell? There you're just willing the weapon to do the casting for you.