Using RPM for Old World of Darkness [Thaumotogy]

AlexanderHowl · 12-10-2019, 06:59 PM

I was just wondering if anyone had dabbled with using RPM in place of the various forms of magic for the Old World of Darkness? I was thinking that the magical systems would use different forms of Ritual Magic, with each type of supernatural creature would have its own propriety tradition, and with each tradition being divided into multiple Paths. Lesser supernatural creatures would have Magery 0+, but they could not take Ritual Adept. Greater supernatural creatures would have Magery 1+ and Ritual Adept. Corrupted versions would have the Perk of Spirit Contract.

For example, take Mage the Ascension. Sorcerers would be their type of lesser supernatural while Mages would be their type of greater supernatural. Every Tradition would have its own Ritual Magic specialty and each of the Spheres would be a Path. Warlocks would have a Spirit Contract with their patrons, which would give them great power in exchange for their souls (Soul Points equal to Will×5).

So, what do you think? Would RPM be a good fit for the Old World of Darkness? What other settings do you think that RPM would work for?

Refplace · 12-10-2019, 07:05 PM

I think it is ok for Mages, though some tweaks need to be done to boost them.
However for the other supernatural beings I would use other systems. Probably mostly powers based.

Anaraxes · 12-10-2019, 08:01 PM

Realm Magic in Thaumatolgoy is the system from GURPS MtA (thus an adaptation of the WW rules) with the serial numbers filed off and genericized.

Christopher R. Rice · 12-10-2019, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I was just wondering if anyone had dabbled with using RPM in place of the various forms of magic for the Old World of Darkness? I was thinking that the magical systems would use different forms of Ritual Magic, with each type of supernatural creature would have its own propriety tradition, and with each tradition being divided into multiple Paths. Lesser supernatural creatures would have Magery 0+, but they could not take Ritual Adept. Greater supernatural creatures would have Magery 1+ and Ritual Adept. Corrupted versions would have the Perk of Spirit Contract.

For example, take Mage the Ascension. Sorcerers would be their type of lesser supernatural while Mages would be their type of greater supernatural. Every Tradition would have its own Ritual Magic specialty and each of the Spheres would be a Path. Warlocks would have a Spirit Contract with their patrons, which would give them great power in exchange for their souls (Soul Points equal to Will×5).

So, what do you think? Would RPM be a good fit for the Old World of Darkness? What other settings do you think that RPM would work for?

It could work, but I wouldn't use it for that. I'd design a system using Syntactic Realm Magic. Optionally, you *could* use RPM and add in the Path Realms rules from Pyramid 66.

Apollonian · 12-10-2019, 09:38 PM

Having made several cracks at oWod style magic (mostly in a Cabal-like framework), I eventually settled on:

RPM for "Magick" Mages or similar, although at this point I might go for Realm magic instead. I never did settle on something I liked for Paradox.
Powers for supernaturals with "inherent magic", i.e. Vampiric Disciplines, Garou Gifts, and so on
Some variation on Path/Book magic for mortal non-mage magic workers, which IIRC was confusingly called Thaumatology.

AlexanderHowl · 12-10-2019, 10:13 PM

OI do wonder if Books (no default) might be better than Paths (modest default). With Books, you end up preserving some of the mystery of the setting. It also avoids munchkins.

I think that the Vampire Disciplines could work as either their own traditions (in the case of Assamite Sorcery, Setite Sorcery, Thaumaturgy, etc.) or as Books of Ritual Magic (Vampire). Blood Pool would be the energy pool from Magery (while it could only be refilled by using Leech, the practitioner could spend it to heal HP). Even the Physical Disciplines could be represented by individual Books (though it would be a bit more flexible than the default Vampire Disciplines).

As for the Shapeshifters, you could have each species having its own tradition of ritual magic, with each Auspice, Breed, and Tribe having its own Book. Shapeshifters would gain two pools, Gnosis and Rage, each apportioned from the energy pool of Magery. Shapeshifters could use Gnosis without risk, but it would possess a slow recharge. Shapeshifters would have to make a Will roll, with a penalty equal to the number of Rage points spent during a turn, to avoid going berserk, but Rage could be recovered quickly.

Prince Charon · 12-11-2019, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I was just wondering if anyone had dabbled with using RPM in place of the various forms of magic for the Old World of Darkness? I was thinking that the magical systems would use different forms of Ritual Magic, with each type of supernatural creature would have its own propriety tradition, and with each tradition being divided into multiple Paths. Lesser supernatural creatures would have Magery 0+, but they could not take Ritual Adept. Greater supernatural creatures would have Magery 1+ and Ritual Adept. Corrupted versions would have the Perk of Spirit Contract.

For example, take Mage the Ascension. Sorcerers would be their type of lesser supernatural while Mages would be their type of greater supernatural. Every Tradition would have its own Ritual Magic specialty and each of the Spheres would be a Path. Warlocks would have a Spirit Contract with their patrons, which would give them great power in exchange for their souls (Soul Points equal to Will×5).

So, what do you think? Would RPM be a good fit for the Old World of Darkness? What other settings do you think that RPM would work for?

Due to the conceits of my Five Earths setting, the WoD-style mages use a variant of RPM with the Spheres being the Paths (so Crossroads is split into Correspondence and Time, there is no Undead path, Chance becomes Entropy, et cetra). Lesser spells are reinterpreted as coincidental magic, and Greater spells are Vulgar magic, though I'm not sure how clearly I articulated that in the thread, I'm not sure. I haven't playtested it, but it seems to work.

Apollonian · 12-11-2019, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

OI do wonder if Books (no default) might be better than Paths (modest default). With Books, you end up preserving some of the mystery of the setting. It also avoids munchkins.

I think that the Vampire Disciplines could work as either their own traditions (in the case of Assamite Sorcery, Setite Sorcery, Thaumaturgy, etc.) or as Books of Ritual Magic (Vampire). Blood Pool would be the energy pool from Magery (while it could only be refilled by using Leech, the practitioner could spend it to heal HP). Even the Physical Disciplines could be represented by individual Books (though it would be a bit more flexible than the default Vampire Disciplines).

I think you could break it up for flavor. Some Disciplines could be Paths, especially ones that have a strong thematic unity. Others would be Books, especially those that are unusually arcane or obscure. I still think Physical Disciplines - especially ones that are mostly "+1 of X" - are better represented by powers or just raw attributes.

Quote:

As for the Shapeshifters, you could have each species having its own tradition of ritual magic, with each Auspice, Breed, and Tribe having its own Book. Shapeshifters would gain two pools, Gnosis and Rage, each apportioned from the energy pool of Magery. Shapeshifters could use Gnosis without risk, but it would possess a slow recharge. Shapeshifters would have to make a Will roll, with a penalty equal to the number of Rage points spent during a turn, to avoid going berserk, but Rage could be recovered quickly.

I do like this for Gifts, but I think you'd want Rage as a separate pool to power some Powers - IIRC, it mostly got used for stuff that all shifters could do, like buy more attacks etc. (It's been years since I played Werewolf, so very hazy.)

AlexanderHowl · 12-11-2019, 10:24 PM

The natural capabilities of Shapeshifters could be represented by a Path/Book of X, with X being the individual species. For example, Garou have Alternate Form, Rage, Regeneration, Warp, etc. Other species would have their own proprietary Path/Book representing the natural capabilities of their species. Or they could be abilities, but the natural capabilities of Shapeshifters are really expensive in GURPS.

12-10-2019, 06:59 PM	#1
AlexanderHowl Join Date: Feb 2016	Using RPM for Old World of Darkness [Thaumotogy] I was just wondering if anyone had dabbled with using RPM in place of the various forms of magic for the Old World of Darkness? I was thinking that the magical systems would use different forms of Ritual Magic, with each type of supernatural creature would have its own propriety tradition, and with each tradition being divided into multiple Paths. Lesser supernatural creatures would have Magery 0+, but they could not take Ritual Adept. Greater supernatural creatures would have Magery 1+ and Ritual Adept. Corrupted versions would have the Perk of Spirit Contract. For example, take Mage the Ascension. Sorcerers would be their type of lesser supernatural while Mages would be their type of greater supernatural. Every Tradition would have its own Ritual Magic specialty and each of the Spheres would be a Path. Warlocks would have a Spirit Contract with their patrons, which would give them great power in exchange for their souls (Soul Points equal to Will×5). So, what do you think? Would RPM be a good fit for the Old World of Darkness? What other settings do you think that RPM would work for?

12-10-2019, 07:05 PM	#2
Refplace Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Yukon, OK	Re: Using RPM for Old World of Darkness [Thaumotogy] I think it is ok for Mages, though some tweaks need to be done to boost them. However for the other supernatural beings I would use other systems. Probably mostly powers based. __________________ My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more! My GURPS fan contribution and blog: REFPLace GURPS Landing Page My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items) My GURPS Wiki entries

12-10-2019, 08:01 PM	#3
Anaraxes Join Date: Sep 2007	Re: Using RPM for Old World of Darkness [Thaumotogy] Realm Magic in Thaumatolgoy is the system from GURPS MtA (thus an adaptation of the WW rules) with the serial numbers filed off and genericized.

12-10-2019, 09:38 PM	#5
Apollonian Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Shoreline, WA (north of Seattle)	Re: Using RPM for Old World of Darkness [Thaumotogy] Having made several cracks at oWod style magic (mostly in a Cabal-like framework), I eventually settled on: RPM for "Magick" Mages or similar, although at this point I might go for Realm magic instead. I never did settle on something I liked for Paradox. Powers for supernaturals with "inherent magic", i.e. Vampiric Disciplines, Garou Gifts, and so on Some variation on Path/Book magic for mortal non-mage magic workers, which IIRC was confusingly called Thaumatology.

12-10-2019, 10:13 PM	#6
AlexanderHowl Join Date: Feb 2016	Re: Using RPM for Old World of Darkness [Thaumotogy] OI do wonder if Books (no default) might be better than Paths (modest default). With Books, you end up preserving some of the mystery of the setting. It also avoids munchkins. I think that the Vampire Disciplines could work as either their own traditions (in the case of Assamite Sorcery, Setite Sorcery, Thaumaturgy, etc.) or as Books of Ritual Magic (Vampire). Blood Pool would be the energy pool from Magery (while it could only be refilled by using Leech, the practitioner could spend it to heal HP). Even the Physical Disciplines could be represented by individual Books (though it would be a bit more flexible than the default Vampire Disciplines). As for the Shapeshifters, you could have each species having its own tradition of ritual magic, with each Auspice, Breed, and Tribe having its own Book. Shapeshifters would gain two pools, Gnosis and Rage, each apportioned from the energy pool of Magery. Shapeshifters could use Gnosis without risk, but it would possess a slow recharge. Shapeshifters would have to make a Will roll, with a penalty equal to the number of Rage points spent during a turn, to avoid going berserk, but Rage could be recovered quickly. Last edited by AlexanderHowl; 12-10-2019 at 10:21 PM.

12-11-2019, 10:24 PM	#9
AlexanderHowl Join Date: Feb 2016	Re: Using RPM for Old World of Darkness [Thaumotogy] The natural capabilities of Shapeshifters could be represented by a Path/Book of X, with X being the individual species. For example, Garou have Alternate Form, Rage, Regeneration, Warp, etc. Other species would have their own proprietary Path/Book representing the natural capabilities of their species. Or they could be abilities, but the natural capabilities of Shapeshifters are really expensive in GURPS.