[Mass Combat] Statting a fantasy army

[Icelander]

I read through GURPS Mass Combat and I somehow failed to be inspired. At a glance, the system didn't look any more interesting than the 3e system and it was missing some of the features from that system.

I think what might have thrown me was the lack of examples that I could latch onto. I may not be seeing the possibilities here because I couldn't relate to the examples.

So I've decided to get you good denizens to help me do that. I have a city state in my fantasy campaign and among the military forces there, we have the following forces:

1st Hussars (DeVillar's Own Hussars): Cavalry on small horses bred for speed, endurance and the ability to forage for their own feed. Armed with two pistol crossbows, light lances and sabres. Carry a small shield and wear a light mail vest and a fanciful helmet.

The troopers are picked men, each of whom has served more than five years under the banners of their noble patron (who recently donated this unit to the city). In GURPS terms, they have a minimum skill of 13 with their weapons and Soldier and a minimum of Riding 14+. Most of the men have extensive combat experience, gained during a recent war as well as heavy patrolling for the past year.

2nd Dragoons (Leorduin Dragoons): Mounted infantry. Trained to fight as cavalry as well as on foot, but can't match the Hussars as riders and are not as proficient at infantry drill as the regular infantry. Wearing mail hauberks of good steel, steel helmets and carrying medium shields. They are armed with spears and cavalry sabres, as well as carrying a crossbow. The crossbow is a new addition and most are not good shots.

In GURPS terms, skill 12 for most things, but skill 10 for the Crossbow.

I'm really not sure what to do with those, since they can fight as medium cavalry (albeit poor shots with the crossbow), medium (or heavy) infantry or bowmen (albeit poor shots). Only takes them a couple of minutes to switch roles too.

1st of Foot (Old Red One): Veteran infantry regiment, tracing its history back 70 years (as long as the city state has had an army independent from the retainers of individual nobles). Equipped similarly to the dragoons, i.e. with good steel mail and helmets, carrying medium shields and spears. Have shortswords instead of the sabres and the spears are fine quality.

The most disciplined and well-drilled unit in the army. In GURPS terms, Soldier skill of around 14 and other military or weapon skills at 12+. I've represented them as being able to carry out complex manouvres that are beyond other units and this is often a battle-winning feature, even though the individual soldier may be less skilled with his weapons than some of the 'militia'.

4th of Foot (Mossbridge Yeomen): A normal infantry regiment with mail hauberks, medium shields and spears. Backswords as sidearms.

Pretty much skill 12 all around in GURPS terms. During the recent war, it accumulated some experience fighting as a unit.

5th of Foot (5th Coastal Territoral Unit): Same as above, with the exception of combat experience. While many members fought in the recent war, they did so as part of other units. The 5th was formed after the war.

Auxiliary Regiment, 1372 DR Company: The city state in question has a significant population of mercenaries, n'e'er-do-wells, dungeon delvers and other adventurers. Many of those serve part-time in the military of their adopted home. The city has a system whereby each person has to serve one out of every three months and can be called up in emergencies, but otherwise his time is his own.

This results in many individually competent people serving several month-long stretches. The officers and NCOs are mostly regular service people, but their complements of other ratings change monthly.

This results in units that are not as cohesive as regular army units and have less ability to perform complex drill, but can be brave and capable in battle. In GURPS terms, actual ability varies widely, but in order to quality for the program it is necessary to exhibit either exceptional individual prowess or some useful exotic abilities. Since most have served several months and the first month is usually just training, Soldier skill 10+ is common, but they can still not boast an average of 12. Weapon skills are often at 14+ and can reach the high teens with many recruits. There are some minor spellcasters or people with an odd ability or two, but mostly the really powerful people are given other jobs than fight as a private soldier.

Now, how do I stat these units out? When is something Heavy Infantry and when is it Medium Infantry? I mean, the city has heavier infantry than these (men with breastplates and mail, fighting with halberds), but the standard infantry is expected to be able to face an orcish shield wall. And they usually fight with spears and shields, which sounds like Heavy Infantry.

And how do I differentiate between units which are disciplined and capable of executing complex orders and ones who consist of good individual fighters? The former is much better during a manouver battle and if you have a situation which requires discipline (covering a retreat, for example), but the flaws of the latter don't matter in a case where savagery and courage alone can win the day (an attack into a defended breach, a counterattack that has to be made fast enough to make maintaining ranks impossible).

Can people help me stat out an element of each of these?

[Rabiddave]

I'll try to stat these, but I have to warn you that without detail as to how each regiment fights, I am taking liberty to put in what I think they represent, your vision may differ...I like the unit names, by the way.

1st Hussars...TS 6...Cv, Rec...wt 2...Mob. Mounted...raise 300K...maintain 48K
Has: Fine equipment and is elite (hand-picked light cavalry)

2nd Dragoons...these are tough because of so many roles, for simplicity I would just treat them as medium cavalry. this simulates them well...they add to fire superiority (crossbows), have mounted mobility, and the same TS as medium infantry. statted...TS 4...Cv, F...wt 2...mob. Mounted...raise 225K...maintain 45K. Has: Good equipment and is average quality.
*note- dragoons came about in later warfare, notably after gunpowder around the napoleonic era, where they were basically used as riflemen with rapid deployment. In TL 3, soldiers on horse would usually stay on horse because in this era they had a marked advantage, with the exception of dismounting to form a sheild wall (before the high middle ages & when fighting opponenets with faster horses so they weren't much good as cavalry). Mass combat shows true benefit for dragoons on the TL 6-12 table, where they could be simulated as mounted rifles (TS 20) and dismount to be riflemen (TS 40), effectively doubling their TS by dismounting. I don't see any benefit to dragoons in TL 3 warfare.

1st of Foot...TS 12...wt 1...foot mobility...raise 160K...maintain 28K
Has: fine equipment & is elite heavy infantry

4th of Foot...TS 6...wt 1...foot mobility...raise 60K...maintain 12K
Has: good equipment & is average heavy infantry

5th of Foot...TS 8...wt 1...foot mobility...raise 80K...maintain 14K
Has: good equipment & is good (veteran) heavy infantry

1372 DR co...TS 3...wt 1...foot mobility...raise 38K...maintain 8K
Has: Impetuous; Levy; average equipment & is average medium infantry
To simulate Special capabilities: add neutralize (some class, depending on their actual capabilities, which weren't specified). Maybe they specialize in taking down enemy monsters? ie neutralize (armor).

Hope this helps give you an idea of what these guys might look like, I'm only going off my impressions of what you had in mind, so I'm sure som tweaking will be in order.

[trooper6]

For the 1st Hussars I might go with Lt. Cav since they are all foragy...they seem like they could have Rec on them. Of course, Very Fine Equip and Elite.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by trooper6

For the 1st Hussars I might go with Lt. Cav since they are all foragy...they seem like they could have Rec on them. Of course, Very Fine Equip and Elite.

1st Hussars certainly have reconaissance as one of their standard duties. They are not incapable of charging home into an infantry formation, though, but it's not something they'd be ordered to do if other cavalry were available (it's expensive to replace the men and their horses).

[Rabiddave]

Originally Posted by Icelander

1st Hussars certainly have reconaissance as one of their standard duties. They are not incapable of charging home into an infantry formation, though, but it's not something they'd be ordered to do if other cavalry were available (it's expensive to replace the men and their horses).

In that case I would go with Trooper6, I'll amend the previous post.

[Rabiddave]

I just had an interesting concept for the 1372 DR co... maybe, because they are levies and therefore cheap to raise & maintain for a limited time, different specialists are called to duty with the unit depending on whatever threat the city faces. This way they could have one neutralize ability for one battle, and later, they can be recalled with a different neutralize ability for a different purpose (overall, a flexible unit of specialists, but not professional soldiers).

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Rabiddave

*note- dragoons came about in later warfare, notably after gunpowder around the napoleonic era, where they were basically used as riflemen with rapid deployment. In TL 3, soldiers on horse would usually stay on horse because in this era they had a marked advantage, with the exception of dismounting to form a sheild wall (before the high middle ages & when fighting opponenets with faster horses so they weren't much good as cavalry). Mass combat shows true benefit for dragoons on the TL 6-12 table, where they could be simulated as mounted rifles (TS 20) and dismount to be riflemen (TS 40), effectively doubling their TS by dismounting. I don't see any benefit to dragoons in TL 3 warfare.

There is a lot of terrain which does not favour cavalry. In the mountains, for example, the dragoons fight on foot like the rest of the army. This means that if their brigade is sent to support a mountain campaign, the dragoons can actually do something other than reconaissance of the foothills. That is a valuable ability for an army with a large operational theatre and comparatively few soldiers.

In addition, many orcish tribes fight in a massed shield wall which no cavalry can break. Some squadrons are held back to exploit a break in the wall, but others are expected to join the human shield wall.

Originally Posted by Rabiddave

1st of Foot...TS 12...wt 1...foot mobility...raise 160K...maintain 28K
Has: fine equipment & is elite heavy infantry

Here I find the lack of granularity disappointing. The 1st of Foot might be the most powerful regimental infantry unit available, but the soldiers aren't 'elite' in the same sense as some noble retainers or even the Hussars. They're better than average troops, certainly, but there ought to be a level above them as well.

I'd call them Good+.

Originally Posted by Rabiddave

1372 DR co...TS 3...wt 1...foot mobility...raise 38K...maintain 8K
Has: Impetuous; Levy; average equipment & is average medium infantry
To simulate Special capabilities: add neutralize (some class, depending on their actual capabilities, which weren't specified). Maybe they specialize in taking down enemy monsters? ie neutralize (armor).

Well, equipment varies wildly, ranging from Basic (that's what they're issued) to Very Fine (what some of them personally own).

I'm not sure what to call the balance. The army ships only Basic stuff to replace losses, but if they are near a town, individual soldiers may pay part of their own upkeep.

Levy is not appropriate, as the service is optional and not unit based. Individuals can choose to serve one month of every three for monetary compensation. Indeed, since they are paid for their months off as well, their salaries are higher than regular army, which causes friction and has led to calls for their disbandment.

The special capabilities include mainly high combat skills. Some members have spellcasting or stealth abilities, but those have mainly been useful in direct combat and/or to heal people afterwards. They've not been used as 'ninjas' yet and may not be. The army doesn't trust them and would prefer to send their own special 'troubleshooters'.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Rabiddave

I just had an interesting concept for the 1372 DR co... maybe, because they are levies and therefore cheap to raise & maintain for a limited time, different specialists are called to duty with the unit depending on whatever threat the city faces. This way they could have one neutralize ability for one battle, and later, they can be recalled with a different neutralize ability for a different purpose (overall, a flexible unit of specialists, but not professional soldiers).

Frankly, since they are paid whether they serve or not, the added cost of calling them up is not too high. But since they all have other jobs and many of those will be away from easy communication, there may be enormous practical problems in quickly mobilising soldiers at another time than their assigned months.

If they are called up too often, the arrangment may lose its current attractiveness to adventurers. One out of every three months is often considered small price to pay for a decent wage every month and social acceptance in the city, but if it turned into much more time, that could change. Of course, there are elements in the army which would like nothing more than to see the Auxiliary Regiment disbanded.

Currently the Auxiliary Regiment is used for dangerous jobs that the regular army doesn't want. The loss of the 'mercenaries and adventurers' that make up the three companies isn't viewed as seriously as the loss of good local citizens that make up the army. And the Auxiliary Regiments are often very effective in battle. The 1372 DR, especially, has fought three large actions within the last year and won two great victories. As a result, political pressure to disband them has been quieted somewhat.

The general level of combat experience and combat ability in the Aux is higher than in most of the regular army. What's missing is discipline and drill.

[Rabiddave]

Originally Posted by Icelander

There is a lot of terrain which does not favour cavalry. In the mountains, for example, the dragoons fight on foot like the rest of the army. This means that if their brigade is sent to support a mountain campaign, the dragoons can actually do something other than reconaissance of the foothills. That is a valuable ability for an army with a large operational theatre and comparatively few soldiers.

In addition, many orcish tribes fight in a massed shield wall which no cavalry can break. Some squadrons are held back to exploit a break in the wall, but others are expected to join the human shield wall.

In the these cases, they wouldn't take horses in combat at all, and so would be infantry (cank their F, Cv, and Mtd) or bowmen (keep a secondary template for them when acting in this role).

Originally Posted by Icelander

Here I find the lack of granularity disappointing. The 1st of Foot might be the most powerful regimental infantry unit available, but the soldiers aren't 'elite' in the same sense as some noble retainers or even the Hussars. They're better than average troops, certainly, but there ought to be a level above them as well.

If they are the most disciplined and well-drilled in the army (and veterans to boot), shouldn't they be elite?

Originally Posted by Icelander

The special capabilities include mainly high combat skills. Some members have spellcasting or stealth abilities, but those have mainly been useful in direct combat and/or to heal people afterwards. They've not been used as 'ninjas' yet and may not be. The army doesn't trust them and would prefer to send their own special 'troubleshooters'.

I would use the Hero feature to bolster these guys then, per squad.
or... it might be overkill, but there's always supersoldiers.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Rabiddave

In the these cases, they wouldn't take horses in combat at all, and so would be infantry (cank their F, Cv, and Mtd) or bowmen (keep a secondary template for them when acting in this role).

Aye.

But the book doesn't give any guidelines for units with dual templates and the effects thereof on upkeep and such. Nor on how long it would take to convert to take advantage of enemy weakness in a given area. Nor on any number of things I'd want from the system.

Originally Posted by Rabiddave

If they are the most disciplined and well-trained in the army, shouldn't they be elite?

*shrug*

Everything's relative. An 'average' soldier from the Old Red One would probably not be able to stand up to many knights of the city or even some of the noble retainers, but they are certainly the most experienced and disciplined regimental unit in the army lists.

Well, apart from the 2nd of Foot (O'Kane's Halberdiers) possibly. But I don't need stats on them, as they're not in the Expeditionary Division and hence don't matter for the purposes of the PCs' normal activities. If the orcs ever gained the upper hand and marched on the city, sure, I'd need to stat them, but until then I can treat them as scenery. ;)

Originally Posted by Rabiddave

I would use the Hero feature to bolster these guys then, per squad.
or... it might be overkill, but there's always supersoldiers.

Well, the Hero feature basically amounts to 'the GM should feel free to change the rules'. And I always knew that.

More examples and better guidelines would be welcome.