Centrum infiltrating Homeline via...

Ludo · 11-08-2005, 03:18 PM

... France!

Yep, it seems to me that something else than just van Zangt discovering parachronics happened in Homeline that makes it different from our world. France is become a weird country to me... a Frenchman. Anyhow, this gives a very good gaming opportunity that I think I'll use in my future Infinite Worlds campaign:

As France is described, they could be quite a good secondary (one more) bunch of bad guys after the dangerous Centrans... Let me explain:

They try and develop their own sphere of influence across the world(s) to get free of USA and Infinity respective powers, thanks to influence-peddling and bribing. Looks like Centran practice.

They are keen on intervening (come only second after the spetznats that even involuntarily gave Reich-5 the passport to "a thousand worlds"), just like Centrans.

They want to civilize other timelines, just like Centrans want to avoid the Last War in other timelines (this one correlation is not really direct, but with some adaptation, it corresponds).

They test some form of central planning with the Communité and have even already hands on the ECCCP with their own planners (which can pretty much remind one of the CCCP (=USSR) and the central planners of the Soviets; I'm sure Hite, as a real historian, put European-CCCP and planners in the same sentence on purpose, one denying it cannot but being dishonest*).

All that makes a perfect compost to grow a cooperation between France and Centrans. If you make it happen on Bonaparte-4, where Centrans could think the French are playing the same game (i.e. discretly opposing Infinity), it perfectly works.

If ever, on top of that, you have Centrans being bad guys mainly because they are them and not us, it makes a real big mess that can really be very tasty.

* It would be a bit like stating that a Trekkie calling a character "John Gorkan" does not want to recall Klingons!

Please, I do not want this thread to become a political argument, I'm here presenting gaming perspective, do not get my thread kicked out of Gurps section to General Chatter, if you want to talk politics, go and open a thread over there, thanks.

Lord_Kjeran · 11-08-2005, 09:17 PM

Chello!

An interesting idea....I'm not all that "up" on how France does things (to my shame, I must admit). How well do they fit the Centran idea of a meritocracy? I think that would be the key determining issue, I would think.

Later,

Tony

Phil Masters · 11-09-2005, 01:52 AM

Well, I think that Centrum could be seen as an exagerrated caricature of France (at least as it's seen in the English-speaking world); politically centralised, proclaimedly meritocratic, claiming a "civilising mission" and generally a bit arrogant, and so on.

I doubt that the food is as good, though.

And I doubt that this is actually deliberate on anyone's part. It's more that our default idea of a dangerous-but-not-actually-eeeevil authoritarian state derives from the Enlightenment (by way of Victorian Europe, the USA in its expansionist moods, and Soviet Russia), which largely started in France and which still flavours political thinking in France in ways that it just doesn't elsewhere.

The fact that Centrum never had an Enlightenment as such makes this a bit weird, even, but c'est la vie.

Twyll · 11-09-2005, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

proclaimedly meritocratic, claiming a "civilising mission" and generally a bit arrogant, and so on...

With no mean of offense, you'll be stunned to learn that your sentence fits perfectly the cliché american tourist, from an european point of view...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

I doubt that the food is as good, though.

That is a sooo much cliché. We have junk food too. Like Mc Donalds...Ok ok i'm joking :p. We have stinky cheese, and you now have great californian wines, staying in the cliché debate. :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

authoritarian state derives from the Enlightenment (by way of Victorian Europe, the USA in its expansionist moods, and Soviet Russia), which largely started in France and which still flavours political thinking in France in ways that it just doesn't elsewhere.

Cliché again. Political thinking is not THAT faraway from other european countries. Even when we compare to UK, wich is only half-european (half-something-else :p).

French people are proud . But english people are the same, american people are the same, Chinese and Iraki people too...er... <oh my God !> no not Iraki er... I meant er... oh my Gaaawd ! I just wanted to say that most people are proud of their birth country. Am I right ?

(Please consider this post as second-degree) ^_^

Christian · 11-09-2005, 05:09 AM

You are Twyll, and even us germans are slowly learning an healthy patriotism again. To little is as bad as to much.

digoraccoon · 11-09-2005, 05:48 AM

I thought of expanding upon that game idea. What if Centrum is a slightly future version of Homeline where France does overthrow the Infinity and takes over the dimension-hopping business, becoming the new world power after the opposing countries are destroyed in a great war?

That would be interesting to me. The campaign idea would be to get to Centrum to find out how it happens and then prevent it back on Homeline without trigging a disaster. :)

Twyll · 11-09-2005, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Kjeran

How well do they fit the Centran idea of a meritocracy? I think that would be the key determining issue, I would think.

If you're right, then France doesn't fit with meritocracy at all... Neither do any country from good ole' Europe. France as a meritocracy is just lol :p

Christian · 11-09-2005, 08:44 AM

Well Twyll, you know, prejudices are predicting reality ^^.

never mind that France turned from a meritocracy to meritancistocracy (you reap the benefits of your ancestors merits). But hey, germans are all blond and blue eyed also ;).

Pomphis · 11-09-2005, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twyll

If you're right, then France doesn't fit with meritocracy at all... Neither do any country from good ole' Europe. France as a meritocracy is just lol :p

Why ? There are studies that several european countries have more social mobility than the US. Today success is closely linked to education, and the US has both more better and more worse schools than many european countries, and where you go depends largely on who your parents are and how much money they have. In most european countries and especially in france the education system is pretty much the same everywhere, so the differences in which what people start are smaller.

http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/pre...ust_report.htm
http://www.economist.com/world/na/di...ory_id=3518560

Lord_Kjeran · 11-09-2005, 12:05 PM

Chello!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pomphis

In most european countries and especially in france the education system is pretty much the same everywhere

lol, yes, I've heard that my degree might actually mean something in Europe...maybe I should move. ;)

How about this for a spin (drawing on digoraccoon's idea)?

I have an IW campaign idea that I've been working on...basically, it's Stargate....deals with the PCs being members of teh US military, FBI, etc and going across the IW doing the work of the US gov't. Occasionally they would come into conflict with the IP oversight of parachronics use.

Use this idea for France. There was a Time Travel RPG back in the 80's Time and Time Again where France became a leading member of internat'l gov't as the world united. The Time Travel agency drew members from the (old) French Foreign Legion and modeled rank structure etc, off of teh FFL. they were called the Voltigeurs (sp?--Voyagers).

Maybe something similiar for your game. France finds a world or 2 they let no one know about...move to take over, etc.. Establish some unlisted colonies on uninhabited worlds, etc.

It's a thought anyway. whaddya think?

Tony

11-08-2005, 03:18 PM	#1
Ludo Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: France!	Centrum infiltrating Homeline via... ... France! Yep, it seems to me that something else than just van Zangt discovering parachronics happened in Homeline that makes it different from our world. France is become a weird country to me... a Frenchman. Anyhow, this gives a very good gaming opportunity that I think I'll use in my future Infinite Worlds campaign: As France is described, they could be quite a good secondary (one more) bunch of bad guys after the dangerous Centrans... Let me explain: They try and develop their own sphere of influence across the world(s) to get free of USA and Infinity respective powers, thanks to influence-peddling and bribing. Looks like Centran practice. They are keen on intervening (come only second after the spetznats that even involuntarily gave Reich-5 the passport to "a thousand worlds"), just like Centrans. They want to civilize other timelines, just like Centrans want to avoid the Last War in other timelines (this one correlation is not really direct, but with some adaptation, it corresponds). They test some form of central planning with the Communité and have even already hands on the ECCCP with their own planners (which can pretty much remind one of the CCCP (=USSR) and the central planners of the Soviets; I'm sure Hite, as a real historian, put European-CCCP and planners in the same sentence on purpose, one denying it cannot but being dishonest). All that makes a perfect compost to grow a cooperation between France and Centrans. If you make it happen on Bonaparte-4, where Centrans could think the French are playing the same game (i.e. discretly opposing Infinity), it perfectly works. If ever, on top of that, you have Centrans being bad guys mainly because they are them and not us, it makes a real big mess that can really be very tasty. It would be a bit like stating that a Trekkie calling a character "John Gorkan" does not want to recall Klingons! Please, I do not want this thread to become a political argument, I'm here presenting gaming perspective, do not get my thread kicked out of Gurps section to General Chatter, if you want to talk politics, go and open a thread over there, thanks. __________________ Ludo - One of the 87% of Dangerous Sane Frogs

11-08-2005, 09:17 PM	#2
Lord_Kjeran Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Overton, TX USA	Re: Centrum infiltrating Homeline via... Chello! An interesting idea....I'm not all that "up" on how France does things (to my shame, I must admit). How well do they fit the Centran idea of a meritocracy? I think that would be the key determining issue, I would think. Later, Tony __________________ Anthony N. Emmel Scholar & Catholic Gentleman Q: GM, are you using the d20 rules system? A: No. GURPS is fun. D20 games are not fun. The GM says so. Playing d20/3.5 makes Baby Jesus cry.

11-09-2005, 01:52 AM	#3
Phil Masters Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: U.K.	Re: Centrum infiltrating Homeline via... Well, I think that Centrum could be seen as an exagerrated caricature of France (at least as it's seen in the English-speaking world); politically centralised, proclaimedly meritocratic, claiming a "civilising mission" and generally a bit arrogant, and so on. I doubt that the food is as good, though. And I doubt that this is actually deliberate on anyone's part. It's more that our default idea of a dangerous-but-not-actually-eeeevil authoritarian state derives from the Enlightenment (by way of Victorian Europe, the USA in its expansionist moods, and Soviet Russia), which largely started in France and which still flavours political thinking in France in ways that it just doesn't elsewhere. The fact that Centrum never had an Enlightenment as such makes this a bit weird, even, but c'est la vie. __________________ -- Phil Masters My Home Page. My Self-Publications: On Warehouse 23 and On DriveThruRPG.

11-09-2005, 05:09 AM	#5
Christian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Germany...for a few more months	Re: Centrum infiltrating Homeline via... You are Twyll, and even us germans are slowly learning an healthy patriotism again. To little is as bad as to much. __________________ If you had the power to change history, where would you start? And more importantly, where would you stop?

11-09-2005, 05:48 AM	#6
digoraccoon Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Orlando, FL	Re: Centrum infiltrating Homeline via... I thought of expanding upon that game idea. What if Centrum is a slightly future version of Homeline where France does overthrow the Infinity and takes over the dimension-hopping business, becoming the new world power after the opposing countries are destroyed in a great war? That would be interesting to me. The campaign idea would be to get to Centrum to find out how it happens and then prevent it back on Homeline without trigging a disaster. :) __________________ Dungeon Master Digo "I'm going to start rolling damage dice and then I'll let you know if Saving Throws even matter." The Arbiters Conspiracy comics at its Fnordest.

11-09-2005, 08:44 AM	#8
Christian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Germany...for a few more months	Re: Centrum infiltrating Homeline via... Well Twyll, you know, prejudices are predicting reality ^^. never mind that France turned from a meritocracy to meritancistocracy (you reap the benefits of your ancestors merits). But hey, germans are all blond and blue eyed also ;). __________________ If you had the power to change history, where would you start? And more importantly, where would you stop?