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Old 12-24-2005, 01:20 AM   #1
Tiger Maggot
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Default Technomagic munchkinism at its finest...

This works best in IW or some other setting with easy access to alternate worlds.

Get yourself a TL10 mage with Create Fuel, Schematic and Rebuild. Head over to the Earth of Robotech and find a wrecked Valkyrie. After the Zentraedi Holocaust (2011), this shouldn't be a problem. She weighs in at 29,260 lbs dry. Call it 29,500 to make the math easy.

Take a fragment and cast Manastone on it 117 times in a suitably-magical world. Depending on whether that piece is worth $141,600 or not, you're looking at either $585 or $2,340 for the Manastone spells (assuming you have someone else do this part for you -- doing it yourself, it would be free and take a few weeks. With apprentices casting the Manastone enchantments, you could have a regular sweatshop going and build an army this way.

Depending on if your GM requires you to build the removable Protoculture Cells separately, you might have to repeat the process with them (at 20 lbs or so loaded, it ain't too bad though), and in any case you'll need some water (maybe 50 gallons -- make sure you have a garden hose handy) to make the Protoculture Matrix from.

Now, sneak into someplace where a laser-equipped mecha would be useful, but you'd have a hard time sneaking same mecha into.

Use 19 energy from the "Manastone" to cast Schematic (15 tons costs 19 energy, plus 10 to maintain it a second minute), and then burn the other 88 on Rebuild. It takes 88 seconds to cast Rebuild, and 59 for your Valkyrie to form. In a little under 2 minutes, you'll have a transformable mecha. Since its nuclear powered, you can run around all you want and fire the lasers until they melt. If you want to fly, break out the garden hose above and make some heavy water with Create Fuel to fill the tanks.

For added munchkinism, break a little piece of fin off a few missiles and a piece of casing off a mecha rifle (raygun would be best -- no ammo), and repeat the process at the reduced cost for the smaller equipment -- you'll be fully armed and REALLY cooking with electric!

Basically, you have a guy with a little pouch of metal fragments transforming himself into a mecha-jockey in the space of a few minutes if left undisturbed in a garage. If he pulled it in a TL10 world, it wouldn't be too bad. If he can pull this stunt on a TL3 planet thanks to his parachronic conveyor or other such plot device, he's nearly unstoppable.

Then, if it gets blown up (and you survive), just pick up a few pieces and repeat the process.

This is why I don't do technomagic, especially worldhopping technomagic.

Last edited by Tiger Maggot; 12-24-2005 at 01:30 AM. Reason: Forgot it takes an hour per Q&D casting
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Old 12-24-2005, 08:43 AM   #2
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Default Re: Technomagic munchkinism at its finest...

How is that munchkinism if it fits with the setting and play style of the GM and players?
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Old 12-24-2005, 09:21 AM   #3
Tiger Maggot
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Default Re: Technomagic munchkinism at its finest...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ziresta
How is that munchkinism if it fits with the setting and play style of the GM and players?
Any GM or player who thinks that's acceptable is a munchkin of the worst kind.
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Old 12-24-2005, 09:30 AM   #4
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Default Re: Technomagic munchkinism at its finest...

I disagree. Even if the player intends to use it in a munckinny fashion, all the GM has to do is let them have it, then somehow get them onto a no mana world or zone. Oops, now their nifty little toy doesn't work. That can happen in any alternate world setting I know of.
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Old 12-24-2005, 09:37 AM   #5
Tiger Maggot
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Default Re: Technomagic munchkinism at its finest...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ziresta
I disagree. Even if the player intends to use it in a munckinny fashion, all the GM has to do is let them have it, then somehow get them onto a no mana world or zone. Oops, now their nifty little toy doesn't work. That can happen in any alternate world setting I know of.
The GM shouldn't have to do that kind of damage control. Anybody who isn't a hopeless munchkin knows my example is simply wrong. Between your defense of this kind of behavior, and your claims Rifts somehow isn't munchkinny, you are rapidly proving yourself to be a hopeless munchkin.

If you want to make a mockery of everything you touch, so be it. Just don't expect real RPers to take you seriously.

Here are a few examples of the same tortured "logic" you displayed in your previous comment:

How can it be disgusting to take a dump on the floor if it fits your style?
How can it be wrong to fly an airliner into a building if the style of the jihad demands it?
How can it be a crime to steal if you think it's a stylish way to spend an afternoon?
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Old 12-24-2005, 09:54 AM   #6
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Default Re: Technomagic munchkinism at its finest...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Maggot
The GM shouldn't have to do that kind of damage control. Anybody who isn't a hopeless munchkin knows my example is simply wrong. Between your defense of this kind of behavior, and your claims Rifts somehow isn't munchkinny, you are rapidly proving yourself to be a hopeless munchkin.
No, they shouldn't. But sometimes they make mistakes and let players have things that without considering all the ramifications first. Been there, done that. I know a GM should, but no one's perfect. I'm not defending that type of behavior, I'm just saying there's not a clear cut definition between munchkin and non-munchkin.

And where did I defend Rifts? I said all I know about the game is that someone tried to get me to play it by saying how easy it is to munchkin, but he was talking character creation mechanics, not setting. I don't see how a setting can be munchkin or non-munchkin. The game mechanics? Sure. That's the reason I won't play d20 any more, unless I can ever find anyone to play Munchkin d20 with.

I find that a very interesting thing to conclude about someone you've never gamed with. I've also got to be the only "hopeless munchkin" ever to switch game systems just so one of her players couldn't be such a munchkin.

Quote:
If you want to make a mockery of everything you touch, so be it. Just don't expect real RPers to take you seriously.
Who are these "real RPers" of whom you speak?
And what have I made a mockery of?

Quote:
Here are a few examples of the same tortured "logic" you displayed in your previous comment:

How can it be disgusting to take a dump on the floor if it fits your style?
How can it be wrong to fly an airliner into a building if the style of the jihad demands it?
How can it be a crime to steal if you think it's a stylish way to spend an afternoon?
So long as it's your floor, it's not, just don't expect many visitors.
I'm not getting into a political or religious discussion on this board.
Because it's against the law. That's the definition of a crime, not whether or not it's stylish. So I fail to see your point.

Last edited by ziresta; 12-24-2005 at 09:54 AM. Reason: fixed quote tags
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Old 12-24-2005, 10:01 AM   #7
Tiger Maggot
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Default Re: Technomagic munchkinism at its finest...

I love this. You ADMIT it's munchkinny by saying GMs allowing it have screwed up, yet you still try to claim it isn't.

You defended Rifts when you said I could make the same claims about Rifts (munchkinny garbage) as I am about IW, and then added you just didn't see it.

If you aren't a munchkin, why do you keep defending it?

Real RPers are the ones who don't play munchkinny settings because we know better.

You want a good tipoff a setting is munchkinny? Any technomagic setting outside of horror where the magic is solely in the GM's hands (and plenty of them are munchkinny too).

And your feeble defenses:
1: it's still disgusting, regardless of whose floor it is.
2: that's a tacit defense of terrorism. Otherwise you would have acknowledged it was wrong to fly airliners into buildings, regardless of the BS excuse.
3: munchkinism is munchkinism, regardless of how much it fits someone's "style." Just like a crime is a crime regardless of style. You just made my case for me. Again.
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Old 12-24-2005, 10:22 AM   #8
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Default Re: Technomagic munchkinism at its finest...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Maggot
I love this. You ADMIT it's munchkinny by saying GMs allowing it have screwed up, yet you still try to claim it isn't.
No, I said IF the player intends to use it in a munchkinly fashion. IF. Neat word. Totally changes a sentence.

Quote:
You defended Rifts when you said I could make the same claims about Rifts (munchkinny garbage) as I am about IW, and then added you just didn't see it.
Find the post where I said that. Because I do believe that was dravenloft, not me. Granted, I am using his computer, so he may have posted as me unintentionally.

Quote:
If you aren't a munchkin, why do you keep defending it?
I'm not defending munchkins. I abhor munchkins. I'm defending multi-genre gaming...which I love.

Quote:
Real RPers are the ones who don't play munchkinny settings because we know better.
And what are these munchkinny settings, so I don't offend any real RPers I meet by playing in them?

Quote:
You want a good tipoff a setting is munchkinny? Any technomagic setting outside of horror where the magic is solely in the GM's hands (and plenty of them are munchkinny too).
How? Simple saying it can be abused, which is all your example has shown, does not making the setting munchkinny. The most munchkinny character I've ever played was in a straight fantasy game. And, for the record, that was ten years ago, and that character has long since been retired.

Quote:
And your feeble defenses:
1: it's still disgusting, regardless of whose floor it is.
2: that's a tacit defense of terrorism. Otherwise you would have acknowledged it was wrong to fly airliners into buildings, regardless of the BS excuse.
3: munchkinism is munchkinism, regardless of how much it fits someone's "style." Just like a crime is a crime regardless of style. You just made my case for me. Again.
1. You and I may find it disgusting, the person doing it may not. Just like you find multi-genre settings munchkin, and I don't. But I can describe why your example's disgusting...can you describe why a multi-genre setting is munchkin?
2. No, that's my way of saying I've seen way too many heated threads on politics and religion on this forum in the year I've been lurking here. If you really want my answer to that one, ask for it by PM. But, really, I don't see what the heck it has to do with gaming.
3. How do you define munchkinism? Because that's where I think this whole conversation is breaking down. Please, no snarkiness, just an answer.
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Old 12-24-2005, 10:27 AM   #9
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Default Re: Technomagic munchkinism at its finest...

The 119 castings of manastone seems like the big hurdle, especially if you plan on doing it more than once. Though you could bring parts of several mecha back, then once you have the first made the 650MW power plants should provide 1,806 mana or 903 if you only draw from one of the two.

Forget the weapons, it's worth the work just for the powerplant.
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Old 12-24-2005, 10:51 AM   #10
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Default Re: Technomagic munchkinism at its finest...

My only question is: Why would the TL 10 mage bother raiding another world for parts? Surely his own society could provide an easily accessible part that could be used in a similar manner. It'd be better (and funnier) if a TL 3 mage heard of "wondrous magical devices" which had no need of mana and went about raiding an alt. world for parts. I could imagine the joy of torturing the poor mage with figuring out just what those displays/lights/etc. meant and do. Hehe, don't push the big red button...
In any case, yeah, your example is blatant munchkinism, but still, if its alright with the GM and players...
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