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Old 08-19-2022, 01:11 PM   #1
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default crushing coal into diamonds

Superman does it in one of the Reeves films - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyHFPV-j8Gs

and recently Disney had Hamster (from Hamster and Gretel) do the same to cover damages

I'm wondering how you'd cover that... like I thought Create (Diamonds) with Environmental/Components (Coal) but Create requires character points be spent any time you do it. In this case it seems like in lieu of character points it's just an application of Crushing ST.
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Old 08-19-2022, 01:26 PM   #2
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: crushing coal into diamonds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
Superman does it in one of the Reeves films - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyHFPV-j8Gs

and recently Disney had Hamster (from Hamster and Gretel) do the same to cover damages

I'm wondering how you'd cover that... like I thought Create (Diamonds) with Environmental/Components (Coal) but Create requires character points be spent any time you do it. In this case it seems like in lieu of character points it's just an application of Crushing ST.
You definitely, absolutely can not do that with just ST. That doesn't make sense in either game mechanics or reality. And it's fine to not spend character points to Create valuable commodities, provided you just give yourself the spectacular Wealth that reflects that. It's the same thing as you only being allowed to use Elastic skin to make yourself Very Beautiful if you bought Very Beautiful...even if that isn't your default beauty level. Spending character points to Create gems is the same thing as trading character points just to get cash...which you can also do even though it's always a lousy deal.

Last edited by David Johnston2; 08-19-2022 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 08-19-2022, 02:08 PM   #3
Michael Thayne
 
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Default Re: crushing coal into diamonds

Setting aside RAW and game balance concerns, forming diamonds normally requires not just high pressure but high temperature, and the ability to produce extremely high temperatures without special tools definitely isn't included in ST, no matter how high your score.
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Old 08-19-2022, 02:20 PM   #4
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Default Re: crushing coal into diamonds

The classic treatment had Superman using his heat vision to heat up the carbon while he held it in his hands, and his invulnerability to avoid giving himself third degree burns while he did it.
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Old 08-19-2022, 02:28 PM   #5
DangerousThing
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Re: crushing coal into diamonds

How about Wealth with the appropriate limitations?

We really don't care that he's creating diamonds, merely that when the day ends, he has cash. I don't imagine that a reporter's salary pays enough to cover the collateral damage of a single fight in Metropolis.
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Old 08-19-2022, 02:31 PM   #6
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: crushing coal into diamonds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
Setting aside RAW and game balance concerns, forming diamonds normally requires not just high pressure but high temperature, and the ability to produce extremely high temperatures without special tools definitely isn't included in ST, no matter how high your score.
That said, there probably is a point in the phase diagram where you do convert graphite to diamond. There's a pretty broad range where either graphite or diamond are metastable, but eventually pressure should work. You might have to hold it for a few years to get over the metastable activation barrier, but eventually...

Though coal is a [horrible] starting material for this, as even the highly metamorphic coals are like 50% stuff other than graphite, and those are going to take things in who knows what alternative directions before you get to the graphite/diamond phase transition line.
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Old 08-19-2022, 02:44 PM   #7
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: crushing coal into diamonds

One thing I've considered for a while is to have any character who can just naturally create stuff that's worth a lot of money - spider webbing (for spider silk), for example - to simply have Independent Income, with the money coming in the form of a specific high-value substance rather than cash or whatever. Add appropriate Limitations if you need something to turn into the stuff, like coal into diamonds.

Alternatively, either have a Wealth level that justifies it or fast-talk the GM into allowing it, and take "Coal->Diamond Transmuter" as your Job, then just pay for Tenure to represent the fact you can't be fired.
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Old 08-19-2022, 04:18 PM   #8
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Default Re: crushing coal into diamonds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
Setting aside RAW and game balance concerns, forming diamonds normally requires not just high pressure but high temperature, and the ability to produce extremely high temperatures without special tools definitely isn't included in ST, no matter how high your score.
It's absolutely possible to heat things up by rapid compression. The simplest way of creating diamonds with ST is probably shock formation from graphite, though that generally produces really tiny diamonds and wouldn't look like 'crushing' the coal, it would look like punching it.

Ignoring reality, my preferred rule on characters who can produce valuable materials is:
  • If doing so takes you as long as it would take to earn similar money in a different job (at your wealth level), that's a 1 point perk (this applies to anything; if being an enchanter is normally a comfortable job and you're filthy rich, the perk lets you enchant 50x as fast).
  • If doing so takes no significant time, that's independent income
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Last edited by Anthony; 08-19-2022 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 08-19-2022, 04:31 PM   #9
mr beer
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Re: crushing coal into diamonds

Yeah I'd let someone do this with a Superman character if they had high Wealth, or if it was the kind of campaign where money wasn't a thing, or if they spent some type of resource point which can be used to do cool things. Other than that, it's a Snatcher type power I think? Not sure.
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Old 08-19-2022, 05:06 PM   #10
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: crushing coal into diamonds

Obviously, people are dancing around the physics on this one. I don't blame them.

The stock answer of, "Sure, yeah, you want a PC who can make diamonds. Buy Wealth (Multimillionaire), Create (Diamonds) or Alter, and maybe Enemies, Reputation, Tenure, and Unusual Background" nicely sidesteps all the thermodynamics equations, but I'm not sure that it was the answer the OP was looking for.

In GURPS terms, the crushing coal into diamond trick requires, at a minimum:

Pressure Support 3 - To handle the massive pressures generated as you crush the diamond.

High levels of DR/Damage Resistance vs. burn damage to cope with the intensely hot temperatures required.

Utterly insane levels of (possibly limited) ST to generate the hundreds of gigapascals of energy required to create a diamond via high pressure. GURPS ST is deliberately vague on exactly how much force you can apply when breaking or damaging things, but it would probably have to be at least ST 100, probably more.

Possibly some method of heating the coal in your hand before you crush it, assuming that just friction from compression isn't sufficient. That requires some incredibly high levels of Innate Attack (Burning, Limitation: Melee Attack (C), -30%). Superman uses his heat vision, which is effectively the same thing.

Sulfur and all the heavy metals found in coal smoke/ash could conceivably vaporize or get squeezed out during phase change, so add Filter Lungs and/or Immunity (Poison) to avoid getting poisoned by the fumes.

Add to that some level of purifying the coal into graphite before or as you crush it. That could be a skill roll (Chemistry/TL7+, Machinist/TL9+, PS (Gem Creation)) possibly with the Craft Secret perk. (Supes' real achievement when he made a diamond was getting a crystal clear, homogeneous, bezel-cut diamond, as opposed to a gritty-looking rock with lots of slag inclusions, which could eventually be cut apart into a bunch of industrial grade diamonds.)
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