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Old 11-12-2018, 12:52 PM   #1
Coinage
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Default GURPS Hydra Problem

Hello.

In Greek mythology, there is the Lernaean Hydra. Whenever a head was broken, two more grew in its place. Similarly, in Hindu mythology, there is the Raktabīja, a demon that had a boon that whenever a drop of his blood fell on the ground, a duplicate Raktabīja would be born at that spot (rakta=blood, bīja=seed; " He for whom each drop of blood is a seed").

I was thinking about Naruto's Shadow-Jutsu problem, and I wanted a character that had the ability to do something similar. Basically, the character could make a magical duplicate (via Duplication, w/ the Enhancement of "Construct"). Whenever a Duplicate is slain, two more pop in it's place. However, the Duplicate is magical, so my guess is that Limitation: Mana dependent: Constant would apply. I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on using the GURPS system to create such a character. Thx.
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Old 11-12-2018, 12:54 PM   #2
Nereidalbel
 
Join Date: May 2013
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Default Re: GURPS Hydra Problem

Modifier for your Dulication power: Cosmic: Clones can make clones (+300%) should cover it.
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Old 11-12-2018, 01:13 PM   #3
Andreas
 
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Default Re: GURPS Hydra Problem

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Originally Posted by Nereidalbel View Post
Modifier for your Dulication power: Cosmic: Clones can make clones (+300%) should cover it.
Most likely too expensive for just allowing clones to appear from other clones rather than from the main body. That seems more like a 100% or 50% version of cosmic to me. The 50% "Adding Utility" in Power Ups 4 also seem to fit that effect rather well.

If you meant allowing an unlimited number of clones that way, then 300% isn't anywhere close to enough.
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Old 11-12-2018, 01:24 PM   #4
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: GURPS Hydra Problem

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Originally Posted by Nereidalbel View Post
Dulication power: Cosmic: Clones can make clones (+300%)
Isn't that already part of Duplication? Dupes are created "each possessing your full knowledge and powers", which would include Duplication. Mind, the each dupe counts against the character limit no matter who spawns one.

The mythological creatures cited are of course in the NPC "points? what points?" category, not to mention usually singular and powerful, so they might have enough points for plenty of dupes. But I wouldn't find +300% out of place if it's meant to mean each dupe gets its own set of independent dupes, rather than having them all add into one total. And maybe not high enough at that. After all, that's effectively an unlimited number of dupes, bounded only by circumstance. (I'm reminded of the pattern where 5x the base cost of something, usually Perk-ish, is often used as the cost for the universal form. So maybe it's a +500% Enhancement to have no limit on Dupes.) But I'm leery of having a no-limit rule at any price if I were to face a group of rules lawyers or munchkins, because someone's bound to push it just to break something -- especially if creation is at will, rather than having some Accessibility limit for required circumstances. (So maybe that particular Enhancement is only available if you've already taken such a creation Accessibility.)
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Old 11-12-2018, 01:35 PM   #5
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: GURPS Hydra Problem

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Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
Most likely too expensive for just allowing clones to appear from other clones rather than from the main body.
There is no "main body" unless you take a limit on your Duplication They are all the same and all have the same limit on the number of duplicates they can have active at any given moment.

The truth is, of course there has to have been an upper limit to the number of heads on the hydra. Where could it attach an infinite number of heads? So what's the real maximum number of duplicates? Buy that, and then put a limitation on a bunch of them so that they can only appear when the character takes injury.
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Old 11-12-2018, 02:37 PM   #6
Coinage
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
... After all, that's effectively an unlimited number of dupes, bounded only by circumstance. ...
That is a good point. I was basing it on Naruto's Shadow-Clone technique, which does have a limit (granted, it's the main character, so that limit was pretty high). The more duplications (i.e. dupes) one makes, whether initially, or via the Hydra problem (wherein the death of one dupe creates 2 more) the more exhausted one becomes. Eventually, there reaches a limit where risks death.

Perhaps then a "Limitation: Costs Fatigue (B111) [-5%]" every time one activates the ability.

Last edited by Coinage; 11-12-2018 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 11-12-2018, 02:48 PM   #7
Andreas
 
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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
There is no "main body" unless you take a limit on your Duplication They are all the same and all have the same limit on the number of duplicates they can have active at any given moment.
There is a main body for Duplication with the Construct enchancement, anf´d that enchancement was mentioned in the original post.

Last edited by Andreas; 11-12-2018 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 11-12-2018, 02:50 PM   #8
Kax
 
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Default Re: GURPS Hydra Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coinage View Post
That is a good point. I was basing it on Naruto's Shadow-Clone technique, which does have a limit (granted, it's the main character, so that limit was pretty high). The more duplications (i.e. dupes) one makes, whether initially, or via the Hydra problem (wherein the death of one dupe creates 2 more) the more exhausted one becomes. Eventually, there reaches a limit where risks death.

Duplication (Cosmic, no limit on numbers +100% (or so), Costs Fatigue: x %+y).

Dupe has a built-in time limit, so leave that in place.

job done.
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Old 11-12-2018, 03:56 PM   #9
Refplace
 
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Default Re: GURPS Hydra Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coinage View Post
That is a good point. I was basing it on Naruto's Shadow-Clone technique, which does have a limit (granted, it's the main character, so that limit was pretty high). The more duplications (i.e. dupes) one makes, whether initially, or via the Hydra problem (wherein the death of one dupe creates 2 more) the more exhausted one becomes. Eventually, there reaches a limit where risks death.

Perhaps then a "Limitation: Costs Fatigue (B111) [-5%]" every time one activates the ability.
Naurto could use the Extra Effort enhancement , the reason he can do a lot of what he does is he has access to alot more Chakra (buy as an ER) than most people. Also the clones are fragile
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Old 11-12-2018, 04:01 PM   #10
Coinage
 
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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Naurto could use the Extra Effort enhancement , the reason he can do a lot of what he does is he has access to alot more Chakra (buy as an ER) than most people. Also the clones are fragile
Like you said, "alot more Chakra" can be modelled as a large Energy Reserve, or by having a REALLY high amount of fatigue points. Is there anyway to model one's Duplicates so that they are fragile?

Last edited by Coinage; 11-12-2018 at 04:06 PM.
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