[AtE] [Low Tech] Farming in AtE

[DCB]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Make a list of your recurring expenses this year and do it again for the same expenses next year.

As a point of interest, this methodology is highly likely to give misleading results. Household expenses increase substantially with age up to the 50s, and internet users skew young, so even with zero inflation you would expect to see a solid year-over-year increase in the average expenses of a random set of internet users.

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying it's not the best approach to try to get the last word in and then try to say that everyone should drop it if you actually want that to happen.

I guess. I'm definitely letting them slide.

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

I had done a short-lived Reign of Steel/Fallout mashup centered around Buena Vista, CO a few years ago. I may try to restart that using the AtE2 rules once they come out. I kinda like being up in the Rockies (for a bit of that Wolverines! Vibe) but I'm not sure if it actually makes sense. Then again I understand the stretch of the Arkansas up there is pretty moderate climate wise (and my apocalypse assumed generally higher temps) and it seemed small enough and out of the way enough to have a little light technical capability without being targeted for scavenging by robots or nukes during the war. And I wanted a small-ish town with some resources close enough to have the PCs able to go collect loot to upgrade the settlement.

I dunno. I do kind of want robots to be involved just so I can steal stats from the 4e RoS supplement. Trying to decide how gonzo I'm gonna go.

Buena Vista is a good choice, for lots of the same reasons as Paonia. I'd think the 8,000 ft altitude would make it a bit more dicey, for farming, which is why I like the Western Slope a bit better.

The presence of the medium-security prison adds some interest, though. Anything designed to keep people in can be easily reworked to keep people out, and the presence of the armory (albeit somewhat limited, since it's medium security) also helps.

The addition of killer robots is certainly keen, but you'd have to be careful, I think. I know that every time I've offered to set up a Reign of Steel campaign, I get turned down because it's so dark.

That said, a localized military AI that's gone nuts and assumed everybody is an invader would certainly be fun. :)

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by tshiggins

I guess. I'm definitely letting them slide.



Buena Vista is a good choice, for lots of the same reasons as Paonia. I'd think the 8,000 ft altitude would make it a bit more dicey, for farming, which is why I like the Western Slope a bit better.

The presence of the medium-security prison adds some interest, though. Anything designed to keep people in can be easily reworked to keep people out, and the presence of the armory (albeit somewhat limited, since it's medium security) also helps.

The addition of killer robots is certainly keen, but you'd have to be careful, I think. I know that every time I've offered to set up a Reign of Steel campaign, I get turned down because it's so dark.

That said, a localized military AI that's gone nuts and assumed everybody is an invader would certainly be fun. :)

I also wanted a nearby "evil empire" in Canon City, with all the prisoners escaping and setting up a "assless chaps and skullthrones" society with a bit more industrial base.

Robots were basically going to ignore humans unless they got in the way of resource scavenging, and have smaller and more directly competing fiefdoms than the zones. Basically, a bunch of smaller zoneminds turtled up in respective manufacturing centers duking it out with each other and humans mostly seeing the bots as dangerous but valuable sources of high tech scavenging for individuals, but if a society tries to use them as a base for any sort of industry the bots smoosh them hard.

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by DCB

As a point of interest, this methodology is highly likely to give misleading results. Household expenses increase substantially with age up to the 50s, and internet users skew young, so even with zero inflation you would expect to see a solid year-over-year increase in the average expenses of a random set of internet users.

It is the only way to get an inflation rate that is of any relevance to you personally. I walk to work and own my own house, so a change in national fuel or rent costs has little effect on my monthly expenses. Any "official" inflation rate that includes these indicators is irrelevant to me.

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by (E)

Talking about warm climates. One common microclimate around here happens where fresh water meets salt water. The micro climate is about one climate band colder. Sub tropical becomes temperate etc.

One the thing, are the local cattle breeds suitable for rearing as bullocks? (8ish years) Chianina being an optimal breed (they are huge).

Not much opportunity for salt water and fresh water to mingle, in Colorado. :)

As for the cattle breeds, here, I've mostly seen either the smaller beef or dairy breeds (red angus, black angus and holsteins, mostly), plus the occasional Highlander herd kept for aesthetics.

I'm not sure the larger breeds would do that well, here. The short-grass prairie might not provide enough fodder, and I know that the angus breeds spend a lot of time in feedlots, eating silage corn.

That said, my experience is pretty limited to the northeast prairie sections of the state.

I've never known of anyone in Colorado to use oxen, although we do see mule-teams, rarely.

Here's a list of cattlemen support groups, active in the state. That might provide some insight:

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/agmarkets/livestock-0

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by tshiggins

Not much opportunity for salt water and fresh water to mingle, in Colorado. :)

Until all the polar ice melts and a bunch of ice comets plunge into the earth raising sea levels until the Mile High City is beach front property!






Waterworld makes for a terrible ATE campaign in my opinion. Sea Pirates of the Infinite Ocean? Sure, but not ATE.

Unless there are plenty of abandoned super carriers still floating out there, derelict, haunted maybe by the ghosts of the past (or robots or mutants) awaiting the unwavering wanderers of the wet waste...

[(E)]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Waterworld makes for a terrible ATE campaign in my opinion. Sea Pirates of the Infinite Ocean? Sure, but not ATE.

After some consideration NZ would probably make a terrible location for an ATE game. Great for an At the end game, great as a destination in an
ATE game.

Here is something to illustrate my thinking, last night while coaching the under 7s rugby team. I sent them on a warm up run around the field, they came back with mushrooms, grapes and macadamia nuts.

Despite this we seem to produce a lot of after the end TV and movies, tribe, the cul-de-sac, battle truck, quiet earth.

Edit
I think Colorado has charolais cattle which do well on grass(though not as well as Angus), they have all the characteristics of draft cattle.
I recently sent an ex sire charolais bull to the freezing works, it killed out at over 500kgs so it's live weight would have been close to 1000kg. Grass fed, 5 years old, no drenching except a quarantine pour on when it arrived as a yearling.

[acrosome]

Colorado has all sorts of interesting settings for AtE. Cheyenne Mountain, of course. Fort Carson. USAF Academy. The Eisenhower and Moffat tunnels. Petersen AFB. Glenwood Hot Springs. Princeton Hot Springs. The San Luis valley. Grand Junction, which is in fact a grand railroad junction.

[tshiggins]

Originally Posted by acrosome

Colorado has all sorts of interesting settings for AtE. Cheyenne Mountain, of course. Fort Carson. USAF Academy. The Eisenhower and Moffat tunnels. Petersen AFB. Glenwood Hot Springs. Princeton Hot Springs. The San Luis valley. Grand Junction, which is in fact a grand railroad junction.

It depends, really. If "The End" was a nuclear war, much of the Front Range becomes uninhabitable (and preferably avoidable) for a very long time. Not only do we have a fair number of military bases, Denver is also the primary backup location for the United States government. As such, we have a lot of (aging, indifferently maintained) U.S. government administrative infrastructure, around here.

And that's in addition to NORAD and U.S. Space Command, plus the USAF Academy and huge military facilities, down in Colorado Springs.

Basically, in a war situation, everything between Boulder and Fort Carson gets glassed. Probably, several times over.

Now, then, head south into Pueblo, or north to Fort Collins or Greeley, and you might find some useful things. Also, if your apocalypse didn't involve nuclear weapons, then yeah, the Front Range is pretty awesome. :)

What makes the Grand Valley so cool is that it is a transportation hub, as you noted, and it's a fertile valley (as long as its irrigated) at the confluence of two rivers. However, it's also not so large that it can't be managed, nor is it too large to control. Plus, it's surrounded by all sorts of little nooks and valleys where people can and have lived reasonably well, since the 19th Century (and the Utes for centuries, before then).

The main thing is, though, that in addition to all of those features, it's really isolated. It's a reasonable drive from Denver -- but if the highways get blocked or fuel runs out, very few people can make it over the mountains. On the other side, it's a long, dry trip from Salt Lake City/Provo. That means it's less likely, than many places, to get overwhelmed by refugees from elsewhere, although feeding the 200,000 people in Grand Junction would get very dicey and I'd expect that area to disintegrate.