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Old 08-07-2020, 09:42 PM   #21
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Star Wars Stormtroopers in Real Armor [Ultratech]

Well, LC1 weapons and ammunition are incredibly difficult to acquire in most settings, so I doubt that even rebels will be getting their hands on too much of the good stuff. Even the average stormtroopers is probably not going to be walking around with anything worse than LC2 unless they are expecting to face people in battlesuits. Streetwise is not normally enough to get LC1 weapons or ammunition, you need people in the secure factories redirect crates or raids against heavily fortified Imperial armories.

In general, the rebels are probably going to make do with what they can steal from the enemy or purchase from the black market (which is stolen from the enemy). If someone wanted to purchase something on the black market, I would penalize them by 2 (CR - LC), with the cost multiplied by 2 (CR - LC) (Minimum '1'). So, trying to get HEMP ammunition on the black market in the Empire would roll against Streetwise-10 and would pay 10x as much for the ammunition as normal even if they did succeed.

Last edited by AlexanderHowl; 08-07-2020 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 08-07-2020, 09:50 PM   #22
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Default Re: Star Wars Stormtroopers in Real Armor [Ultratech]

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
As to not enjoying deadly combat it's one of the main hallmarks of Gurps. Maybe you want another system for this sort of thing?
Except that even with a bit more points in survivability, Gurps combat will require a lot of damage to kill.

A ST 12/HP 15 HT 12 hard to kill 2 character has used 50 points for such(and ST and HT are also useful for other things) and yet is likely to require the 6*15 or 90 points of damage to kill. Without vitals hits or armor that is an average of ten 9mm pistol shots.

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As for me I don't want a system where PCs can't kill mooks. Stormtroopers are archetypal mooks and they are supposed to go down when shot.
Except when they are shown to be competent like the boarding scene in start of episode IV, where they quickly roll over an opposition despite having only one point of ingress.
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Old 08-07-2020, 09:54 PM   #23
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Star Wars Stormtroopers in Real Armor [Ultratech]

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Well, LC1 weapons and ammunition are incredibly difficult to acquire in most settings, so I doubt that even rebels will be getting their hands on too much of the good stuff.
You mean like the X-Wings and the Mon Calamari ships of the line? The Rebels really shouldn't have been able to get their hands on those.

Seriously you keep rational anti-armor weapons out of Star Wars by not giving Stormtroopers armor that requires such things to penetrate it.
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Old 08-07-2020, 09:55 PM   #24
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Star Wars Stormtroopers in Real Armor [Ultratech]

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Originally Posted by weby View Post

Except when they are shown to be competent like the boarding scene in start of episode IV, where they quickly roll over an opposition despite having only one point of ingress.
An opposition made up of similarly nameless mooks.
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Old 08-07-2020, 10:00 PM   #25
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Star Wars Stormtroopers in Real Armor [Ultratech]

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Originally Posted by weby View Post
Except that even with a bit more points in survivability, Gurps combat will require a lot of damage to kill.

A ST 12/HP 15 HT 12 hard to kill 2 character has used 50 points for such(and ST and HT are also useful for other things) and yet is likely to require the 6*15 or 90 points of damage to kill. Without vitals hits or armor that is an average of ten 9mm pistol shots.



Except when they are shown to be competent like the boarding scene in start of episode IV, where they quickly roll over an opposition despite having only one point of ingress.
Rebel crew are even less slite than the Stormtroopers are.

I get the idea you don't want my advice but that advice is _never_ give your PC's opponets extra HP and high effective HT scores unless maybe it is for a Level Boss.

If I saw an enemy take 10 9mm shots I'd be unhappy unless I was in a Monster Hunters game and they were coming one at a time. If I was ever to see one of those things again I wouldn't be carrying nothing but a 9mm.
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Old 08-07-2020, 10:12 PM   #26
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Default Re: Star Wars Stormtroopers in Real Armor [Ultratech]

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This is a pretty major issue (Well, arguably. I think it's an issue.) with ultra-tech armor in general. I think in some cases, it would make sense to give armor the equivalent of a low level of IT:DR in addition to its usual effects.
That's why you make high penetration modifier weapons the standard. (5) blasters vs TL11 armour works fairly well. (2) Plasma guns makes for (very charred) pink mist.
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Old 08-07-2020, 10:23 PM   #27
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Default Re: Star Wars Stormtroopers in Real Armor [Ultratech]

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Star Wars blasters function more like firearms than beam weapons, and should have Rcl 2 at a minimum. Bypassing 5/6 armor calls for a -4 to hit; while sprayed fire certainly can get past it, you'll often see better probabilities of a bypass by specifically aiming for it, at least if you're working with sufficient effective skill that taking a -8 is an option. That said, if you feel 5/6 would be a problem, I'd at least give a bonus to targeting chinks (as for cheap armor).
If the lining is just a thin skin suit, you wouldn't use a blaster, you'd use a gauss rifle or conventional rifle.
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Old 08-07-2020, 10:54 PM   #28
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Default Re: Star Wars Stormtroopers in Real Armor [Ultratech]

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Well, LC1 weapons and ammunition are incredibly difficult to acquire in most settings, so I doubt that even rebels will be getting their hands on too much of the good stuff.
Consider the stuff that's common to rebels today. Even if they don't have stuff that they carried with them when they left the government forces (not uncommon), they'll have a oceans of assault rifles (LC2), a fair number of machineguns (LC1), and tons of RPG-7s (LC1) which will ruin any man-sized UT armour suit's day - 6dx8(10) (the common warhead these days) will kill the wearers of a Warsuit, despite its DR300 and three levels of hardening. Adding TL12 Reactive Armour Paste to a Warsuit will (usually) stop it (and the newer MS-HEAT round), but that's a cheap, dirt-common TL7 LAW firing dirt common, cheap TL8 rockets that are common all over the world when there's a civil war going on.
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Even the average stormtroopers is probably not going to be walking around with anything worse than LC2 unless they are expecting to face people in battlesuits. Streetwise is not normally enough to get LC1 weapons or ammunition, you need people in the secure factories redirect crates or raids against heavily fortified Imperial armories.
So the sort of thing the Rebel Alliance had then. Also, they had no shortage of thermal detonators (and so did just about every other band of armed thugs), which seem sufficient to trash most personal armour.

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In general, the rebels are probably going to make do with what they can steal from the enemy or purchase from the black market (which is stolen from the enemy). If someone wanted to purchase something on the black market, I would penalize them by 2 (CR - LC), with the cost multiplied by 2 (CR - LC) (Minimum '1'). So, trying to get HEMP ammunition on the black market in the Empire would roll against Streetwise-10 and would pay 10x as much for the ammunition as normal even if they did succeed.
I think you under estimate how much hardware ends up in the hands of rebels/freedom fighters/guerillas once a war gets past the "some guys riot and then shoot at the government forces" point if the rebellion isn't suppressed very quickly. Once something like this shows it has legs, they'll get guns, etc., one way or another.

What's more the Rebels in Star Wars are shown to be well-supplied and well trained. They clearly have some pretty serious backing and safe rear areas. What they don't have is numbers.
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Old 08-07-2020, 11:01 PM   #29
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Default Re: Star Wars Stormtroopers in Real Armor [Ultratech]

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Rebel crew are even less slite than the Stormtroopers are.

I get the idea you don't want my advice but that advice is _never_ give your PC's opponets extra HP and high effective HT scores unless maybe it is for a Level Boss.

If I saw an enemy take 10 9mm shots I'd be unhappy unless I was in a Monster Hunters game and they were coming one at a time. If I was ever to see one of those things again I wouldn't be carrying nothing but a 9mm.
My players consider a laser rifle with an underbarrel grenade launcher (40mm for preference) the starting point for serious weaponry at TL10 because of robots. That laser rifles are amazingly good at wiping out people in non-hard armour is a happy bonus (it saves them having to bring along an EPC slugthrower for that).
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Old 08-07-2020, 11:04 PM   #30
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Default Re: Star Wars Stormtroopers in Real Armor [Ultratech]

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
No, energy weapons that make holes through armor will make holes through flesh.

As to not enjoying deadly combat it's one of the main hallmarks of Gurps. Maybe you want another system for this sort of thing?

As for me I don't want a system where PCs can't kill mooks. Stormtroopers are archetypal mooks and they are supposed to go down when shot.
You're either misunderstanding or misrepresenting what I'm saying. I don't have any issue with combat being lethal. But I don't like it when damage and armor interact in a way where (functionally) every hit will either glance off completely or deal so much damage that it's basically instant death. And as the system works now, the better the armor gets, the more that situation happens.
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