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Old 01-11-2017, 12:24 PM   #1
Anders
 
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Default Reworking IQ-based advantages

I've been thinking about reworking IQ-based advantages like Common Sense and Intuition to a "frequency of appearance"-based model, like that used for Allies and Patron. Instead of rolling against IQ you roll against a target number, and modify the cost of the advantage accordingly.

Following the model for Allies and Patron, this would mean

Common Sense (6) costs 10x1/2=5 points
Common Sense (9) costs 10x1=10 points
Common Sense (12) costs 10x2=20 points
Common Sense (15) costs 10x3=30 points

Maybe some other progression - 1/2, 1, 3/2, 2 would be better. In any case, automatic success is not available; nor is Cosmic: No Die Roll Required.

Thoughts
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:32 PM   #2
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Default Re: Reworking IQ-based advantages

I've just had the same idea, but with an additional alternative cost structure.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:34 PM   #3
Anders
 
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Default Re: Reworking IQ-based advantages

I think that 1/2, 1, 3/2, 2 would be best - it comes close to the +100% for "Irresistible: No Die Roll Required". So that would be:

Common Sense (6) costs 10x1/2=5 points
Common Sense (9) costs 10x1=10 points
Common Sense (12) costs 10x1.5=15 points
Common Sense (15) costs 10x2=20 points
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:13 PM   #4
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Default Re: Reworking IQ-based advantages

Seems solid to me, but then again I was favorably disposed towards the notion anyway.

Unreliable (p. B116) and Reliable (p. P109) are the RAW options for these traits to work differently; it isn't bad but it seems a wee bit complicated. Unreliable used in a RAW manner means two rolls; first against the reliability number, then against IQ. It does have its uses, though; if I want a genius scientist (say IQ 15) who only periodically enjoys the benefits of Intuition, but when his Intuition kicks in it usually works (assuming there aren't too many wrong choices lowering the roll). Reliable isn't so bad, save it isn't a [Basic] Modifier; I can have my rural bumpkin who seems a bit thick (IQ 9) but then take 7 levels of Reliable so that Common Sense works on a roll of 16 or less.

Using the Frequency of Appearance Modifiers (sans "Constant") or inverse of the self-control numbers doesn't allow you to perfectly fine tune things, but it gives you for ways to play out various mental Advantages. With some traits being capable of soaking penalties, I guess we still have a problem; the chief purpose of Reliable is to allow for a great roll when using a trait like Intuition, enough to soak penalties for multiple options, we just undid that.

Right now though I am wondering... what other Advantages might make use of the alternate rules? It might help with picking the best approach.
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:28 PM   #5
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Default Re: Reworking IQ-based advantages

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
Right now though I am wondering... what other Advantages might make use of the alternate rules? It might help with picking the best approach.
My, hopefully exhaustive, list of IQ based advantages:

Detect (Per to detect, IQ to analyze)
Discriminatory Hearing/Smell/Taste (Per to detect, IQ to memorize)
Oracle (Per to discover, IQ to interpret)

Blessed
Clairsentience
Common Sense
Eidetic/Photographic Memory
Empathy/Animal Empathy/Plant Empathy/Spirit Empathy
Healing
Illuminated
Intuition
Jumper
Mind Control/Probe/Reading
Possession
Precognition
Psychometry
Racial Memory
Sensitive
Snatcher
Telecommunication
Temporal Inertia
Visualization
Warp

Additionally there are a number of sense-based advantages that use Perception or a Per based Vision/Hearing/etc roll. And, of course, many physical advantages use DX or a DX based skill roll.
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Old 01-11-2017, 08:29 PM   #6
Otaku
 
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Default Re: Reworking IQ-based advantages

Thanks ericbsmith!

For some of these, the roll against IQ makes at least some sense. Granted it might be because I don't have a proper understanding of things like Common Sense and Intuition; I tend to think of them as things separate from real world intelligence or at least GURPS IQ. Could just be a matter of perception; does one not expect a genius to avoid doing dumb things, or get to the right answer before fully understanding how? Maybe not, in which case this is a good time to let me know, so I don't complicate the thread! ^^'

That or perhaps the real issue is Unreliable needs to be more granular? Become the legitimate inverse of Reliable as -X% per -1?
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: Reworking IQ-based advantages

Some thoughts:

Cost:
the base cost = 9- activation seems to make them higher cost for most PCs since most PCs have more then IQ 9. Using half the base value and the normal things for patron/ally would seem more like it. Thus common sense base value: 10/2=5:
6- costs 3
9- costs 5
12- costs 10 (=same cost as normal common sense, thus giving equal result at IQ 12)
15- costs 15
no roll needed costs 20 (=same cost as common sense with +100% cosmic No die roll required)

Use of activation number instead of attribute roll: Activation rolls do not have critical success and critical failure so you will be missing those from the IQ based system. Is that good or bad? It depends...
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Old 01-12-2017, 02:27 AM   #8
Anders
 
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Default Re: Reworking IQ-based advantages

Quote:
Originally Posted by weby View Post
Some thoughts:

Cost:
the base cost = 9- activation seems to make them higher cost for most PCs since most PCs have more then IQ 9. Using half the base value and the normal things for patron/ally would seem more like it. Thus common sense base value: 10/2=5:
6- costs 3
9- costs 5
12- costs 10 (=same cost as normal common sense, thus giving equal result at IQ 12)
15- costs 15
no roll needed costs 20 (=same cost as common sense with +100% cosmic No die roll required)
I would make "no roll needed" have an activation number of 18, because some rolls have modifiers. Otherwise, it looks fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weby View Post
Use of activation number instead of attribute roll: Activation rolls do not have critical success and critical failure so you will be missing those from the IQ based system. Is that good or bad? It depends...
You can always import that if you want. I wouldn't, but your YMMV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
My, hopefully exhaustive, list of IQ based advantages:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Detect (Per to detect, IQ to analyze)
Discriminatory Hearing/Smell/Taste (Per to detect, IQ to memorize)
Oracle (Per to discover, IQ to interpret)
These make sense as they are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Blessed
Activation number.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Clairsentience
Activation number.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Common Sense
Activation number.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Eidetic/Photographic Memory
IQ

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Empathy/Animal Empathy/Plant Empathy/Spirit Empathy
Could go either way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Healing
Activation number

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Illuminated
Don't know enough about it in game to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Intuition
Activation number

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Jumper
Activation number

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Mind Control/Probe/Reading
IQ

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Possession
Activation number or Will?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Precognition
Activation number

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Psychometry
Activation number

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Racial Memory
Activation number

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Sensitive
Could go either way

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Snatcher
Activation number

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Telecommunication
Activation number

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Temporal Inertia
IQ

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Visualization
Activation number

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Warp
Activation number

These are, of course, suggestions. YMMV

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
Additionally there are a number of sense-based advantages that use Perception or a Per based Vision/Hearing/etc roll. And, of course, many physical advantages use DX or a DX based skill roll.
__________________
“Balance out the good things and the bad that have happened in your life and you will have to acknowledge that you are still way ahead. You are unhappy because you have lost those things in which you took pleasure? But you can also take comfort in the likelihood that what is now making you miserable will also pass away.” Boethius

"Our life is what our thoughts make it." Marcus Aurelius
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Old 01-12-2017, 03:33 AM   #9
Phil Masters
 
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Default Re: Reworking IQ-based advantages

Incidentally, if and when creating the possibility of a low activation number, I'd soften the description of the consequences of failure for some advantages. Empathy in particular is quite chancy for modest-IQ folks if used as written, and Sensitive is downright dangerous; if the GM has to lie to you about your read on an NPC on a failure, and you fail more often than not... Well, the rational response is to treat all results as lies, isn't it?

Saying "You're not sure" on an ordinary failure, and only lying on a critical failure, makes much more sense. Even then, as a relatively kind-hearted GM, I'd drop broad hints about the critical failure lie. I don't want some kind of roleplaying clusterfudge, with my helpful plot-driving information-giver NPC being knifed in the kidneys, just because my dice decided to come up 17 and the players weren't even aware of it.

("Open" critical failures, on stuff like combat rolls, worry me far less. Bad stuff happening occasionally is all part of the roleplaying fun for everyone. But bad stuff happening on hidden rolls is generally no fun at all.)
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Old 01-12-2017, 04:01 AM   #10
Anders
 
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Default Re: Reworking IQ-based advantages

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Masters View Post
Saying "You're not sure" on an ordinary failure, and only lying on a critical failure, makes much more sense. Even then, as a relatively kind-hearted GM, I'd drop broad hints about the critical failure lie. I don't want some kind of roleplaying clusterfudge, with my helpful plot-driving information-giver NPC being knifed in the kidneys, just because my dice decided to come up 17 and the players weren't even aware of it.
Yeah, that's solid advice.
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"Our life is what our thoughts make it." Marcus Aurelius
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