Reprinting GURPS 4E books?

[GM Joe]

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

Not much stuff even gets reprinted anymore. Maybe, if PoD doesn't come together, there will be a Kickstarter a few years down the line to get a new print run of a bunch of stuff - but expect a one-time "get it now" thing, like OGRE.

That'd be cool. All errata fixed, all full color and hardbound, etc, with some marking on the spine to show they're part of a "complete set". I'd buy it.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by ciaran_skye

Of the two dedicated gaming stores in my town one has a tiny shelf of Pathfinder and D&D and the rest of the store is T-shirts and general "nerd stuff." The other has a larger variety of RPGs, and get new stock from time to time, but old stock rarely ever moves and GURPS 3rd Ed. has more shelf space than 4th Ed. and both together have maybe six inches. (The second store is more of a board and card game store, but with a healthy stock of RPGs.)

At my FLGS, I see some D&D, Pathfinder, some Warhammer FRP, a bit of WoD, a few GURPS books (I think they had 3e Grimoire last time I was in), and several random one-off titles (including some indy titles I don't think I've seen anywhere else). Most of the shelf space is taken up by board, card, and minis games (which, notably, aren't in danger of becoming digital only), with a substantial Munchkin section.

After a little early resistance, I've adapted well to a digital RPG collection. Much easier than carrying a dozen hardbacks everywhere. I do worry that it makes the hobby less visible, though.

[shawnhcorey]

Originally Posted by David Johansen

The problem is that the 4e Basic Set is a lousy point of entry. I've been running my store for three years now and running GURPS demo games as often as I can. I've sold, three copies of Basic Set volume one and nothing more. The GURPS Basic Set scares too many people off.

I've advocated doing some simple, cut and paste supplements to GURPS Lite that would let people try a cut down and focused version of the system without spending any money but I think arguments for a GURPS Medium are also viable.

I have to agree with you. I find GURPS Skill Categories a lot easier to use the alphabetic listing of skills. Now, if someone would just categorize the advantages and disadvantages...

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by David Johansen

I've advocated doing some simple, cut and paste supplements to GURPS Lite that would let people try a cut down and focused version of the system without spending any money but I think arguments for a GURPS Medium are also viable.

I think that a volume containing a condensed Basic Set or expanded GURPS Lite plus Action or DF or whatever the post-apocalyptic equivalent they were thinking of would help spread GURPS, but like a Print-on-Demand option, all we can do is ask. I would not be able to buy it at this point in my life, and I think that SJ Games has pretty good data that their audience is in its 20s and older rather than 14-22 like WOTC decided D&D players were.

[David Johansen]

One thing that needs to be avoided at all costs in an entry level product is the dense 4e style stat blocks and templates. People just bounce right off of them. Overbuilt characters are a real problem in 4e as it is. Keep the character's short and sweet. That's why there's 4 attributes in the first place.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Kromm

...
Pretty much this. Our unofficial intelligence-gathering suggests that the biggest issue is the phenomenon of one gamer per group, usually the GM, buying a copy of the book, which then sits on the table for all to consult. This discourages sales of additional copies to that group. Digital supplements get shared illegally, we know, but we still sell more than one copy per group.

This has always been the primary issue of selling RPGs, the majority of people who play them don't need to buy them to play them. So you need a steady stream of new groups to ensure new sales*. Which goes back to increasing brand awareness, you mention social media and other methods being used, but can I ask what are they? I like to think I'm reasonably aware of the RPG hobby and the only GURPS presence I see is here? (plus occasional ads in RPGnet). Or sorry are you saying you're looking into these?

*plus you have two kinds of established fans, ones that will buy everything, and ones that will buy occasional new things. But we're obviously a subset of the market and can only be sold product that needs to be newly developed so comes with cost. GURPS by it's very nature means specific supplements are not required to play so you relying on individual need or desire

GURPS is about as far away from the old oWOD model where every splat book was consumed for metaplot teasers and crunch creep (but they sold a lot of books, although questions about longevity abound, which they don't for GURPS).

Originally Posted by otghand

What I most want to see are electronic versions well formatted for tablets and e-readers, and very well indexed.

I think GURPS stuff works pretty well for this my tablet reads them fine with indexes (and searches) contents pages and sub divisions.

[Anaraxes]

In electronic format, the index is replaced by the search function. It's easy to find external PDF indexing software, as well. (Which, if you really wanted, could index every word in your PDF collection. I also imagine any number of fan-curated special-purpose indices for specific genres, or categories like "all Advantages", etc.)

Editorial time saved by not creating an index could go into making more content, rather than more layout and infrastructure.

I quite like physical books, but for gaming purposes, electronic search and retrieval is killer. GURPS 5e won't look like a bunch of PDFs, but something down the path you see in bits and pieces from GCA / Hero Labs / RealmWorks / MapTool / etc -- a database with smart, gaming-specific front end software.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

In electronic format, the index is replaced by the search function. It's easy to find external PDF indexing software, as well.

A text search is a substitute for a professional index like a hammer and nail is a substitute for an electric drill! You can use them to solve the same problem, but one will almost always be better for a given task.

Composing indices is an expensive profession for a reason: it is not just about compiling references, but deciding "they might look up this concept under that name; these five pages are the key reference to this concept and the others mostly refer back to them; these ten pages refer to the same concept under different names."

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

it is not just about compiling references

I'm aware of that. I'm also aware of the use I get out of the indices at the end of the GURPS PDFs, compared to the use I get out of simply generating those dumb cross-references with the PDF reader.

You're also neglecting the case where you _do_ want to run down every cross-reference to find all mentions of some advantage or rule.

A specifically-tuned index will be better at doing exactly the job it was specifically tuned to do. And that's one of those things you can have with a multiplicity of electronic indices for the same texts. SJG (or fans) are still perfectly free to produce a "key fundamental reference" index, or an index biased any other way that proves useful.

When it comes to speculative possibilities for future work, there's no good reason to assume that a good database search agent only does simple string matches, any more than Google does now when you "search the web".

[Ronnke]

I haven't read everything in this thread, so my apologies if it has been mentioned before.

Why does SJG not use Lulu.com as a PoD solution for out of print books?

Using this service would free SJG from any concerns with shipping, returns, etc as this is all handled by Lulu. It's all online and simple to use. The end user could then decide if they want to get a particular book in full colour, B&W, hardcover or soft, provided SJG have configured those options for the books they want to sell on Lulu.

The resulting books are awesome and you would be hard pressed to spot the difference between an original print and a Lulu print.