Realistic stats for a marathon runner

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

The calculation is in one of the previous posts. To replicate the current marathon world record holder, you need a Basic Move 11 for paced running purposes. Anyway, Basic Move 15 is possible for non-superhumans in GURPS (DX 20, HT 20, Basic Speed 12.00, and Basic Move 15 are legal and 'only' costs a total of 355 CP). Is it cinematic? Yes. Is it superhuman? No.

Oh, come on. Sprinting a few minutes at 36 miles per hour is not superhuman in your mind? That is literally as fast as a horse.

[AlexanderHowl]

According to RAW, it isn't superhuman (horses go faster, by the way, with the record being 55 mph), but it is very cinematic.

[Anders]

Cinematic =/= realistic.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

According to RAW, it isn't superhuman (horses go faster, by the way, with the record being 55 mph), but it is very cinematic.

If I said an animal could run as fast as a human, I doubt anyone would assume I meant as fast as Usain Bolt's world record.
Gurps sprinting can be maintained for a few minutes. The human world record for the mile is far less than half 36 mph.

[dcarson]

I think the suggestion of a Technique for paced running on the Running skill makes sense. Buy that up a couple levels past Running and lower your FP roll failures.

[JulianLW]

I keep thinking about this - how to make GURPS running rules a bit more realistic - and one thought occurs.

Define Sprinting as Extra Effort.

To get that +20% to move after the first second, require an expenditure of 1 FP per minute to initiate and maintain a sprint - in addition to the 15 second rolls for an additional 1 FP cost. That way, sprinting becomes finite and can't be maintained almost indefinitely by a character with HT 14 and Very Fit. I think this limitation might also solve the incompatibility with modeling endurance and speed running with the same stats.

What do y'all think? Is that a reasonable rules change for a hypothetical 5e GURPS?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by JulianLW

I

To get that +20% to move after the first second, require an expenditure of 1 FP per minute to initiate and maintain a sprint?

It's added complexity for no great increase in realism.

"Sprinting" in common English is an anerobic exertion that normal humans can maintain for c. 40-50 seconds. Leaving it on a scale of multiple minutes still makes "sprinting" in Gurps an obviously different thing than "sprinting" in common English.

Segueing off "anerobic" I would go towards the breath holding rules. Note that holding your breath is not affected by making HT rolls nor exending FP. It's done for a multiple of your HT score and after that you're in trouble.

If you want this to be something that Joe Average can do for about 40 seconds set it at 4x HT. That more or les fits my rather old memories of doing a full speed lap around the running track (440 yards/400 meters).

[JulianLW]

I agree about the added complexity. But I don't think making sprinting an absolute measure - like breath holding - increases realism. I've met runners who really could run at a near sprint for amazing distances. The folks who are approaching the two hour marathon are running closer to a sprint than to a GURPS "pace." But by charging 1 FP per minute with a possible loss of another 1 FP every fifteen seconds, the average person will be completely winded after one minute of running, about to fall down. Competitive racers will be able to sprint for a few minutes but probably no more than that. This seems to model reality a little bit better than the current rules and makes training matter more.

[JulianLW]

And the more I think about it, the more I realize that the best way to introduce more realism would simply be to make all running feats roll against Running (which should probably be HT/E) rather than the better of Running or HT. Go to a marathon sometime and watch the people coming over the finish line. There are plenty of older folks and heavier folks who are beating younger and fitter people all the time. RAW HT score probably isn't the best way to measure anything beyond potential; Running skill really does matter for running, but the way the rules are set up, it's pointless for most of the kinds of competitive-build characters we've been describing to spend even a single point on it.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by JulianLW

t by charging 1 FP per minute with a possible loss of another 1 FP every fifteen seconds, the average person will be completely winded after one minute of running, about to fall down.e.

Nope, that level of fatigue implies at least 7 FP lost and an average HT 10 human has only lost 3 unless he rolls badly under your rules. No reason he shouldn't "sprint" for another minute and he's still at full speed with 4 FP remaining. Only in the 15 to 30 seconds after that will he slow to half speed when he hits 3 FP.