Magic Attribute

[AlexanderHowl]

The Magic attribute is one of the possible fifth attributes available to GURPS characters. The problem with a fifth attribute in GURPS though is that it must possess enough benefits not to disadvantage a character who increases it beyond '10' and enough penalties to disadvantage a character who decreases it below '10'. With that in mind, I would suggest the following elements for a Magic attribute.

1. Characters start with a Magic attribute equal to '10'. Each level of Magic above '10' costs 20 CP while each level of Magic below '10' gives 20 CP. If magic does not exist at all within a setting, characters are automatically assumed to have the 0 CP feature of 'Cannot change magical traits'. If magic does exist within a setting, characters may change their Magic attribute as normal unless the GM requires them to take the 0 CP feature of “Cannot change magical traits'.

2. Characters receive Magic Points (MP) equal to (Magic * 3). They may improve the secondary characteristic of Magic Points by spending 3 CP per MP increase or gain 3 CP per MP decrease by reducing Magic. They may not normally change their Magic Points by more than +/-30% of (Magic * 3) and may not change Magic Points if they have the 0 CP feature of 'Cannot change magical traits'.

3. Characters may recover 1 MP per 10 minutes (modified by mana/sanctity levels if applicable to their magical system). In very high mana/sanctity areas, they recover 1 MP per 2 minutes. In high mana/sanctity areas, they recover 1 MP per 5 minutes. In low mana/sanctity areas, they recover 1 MP per hour. In no mana/sanctity areas, they do not recover MP.

4. In threshold magic systems, MP instead represents the amount of tally that a character may accept without adverse consequences. Characters lose 8 points of tally every day.

5. Characters may spend 3 FP or 2 HP without penalty in place of 1 MP if they are assisting or casting a magical spell or ritual.

6. Characters without Magery are capable of allowing casters to use their MP when they are assisting mages during the casting of magical rituals or spells and are capable of spending their MP when they are maintaining benevolent rituals or spells that were cast on them. Depending on the nature of the specific magical system, they may also spend MP to cast magical rituals and spells, though they may suffer penalties and/or restrictions.

7. Characters with Magery are capable of spending MP to assist, cast, and/or maintain magical rituals or spells of the appropriate magical system without penalty or restriction.

8. Characters may maintain a number of beneficial magical rituals or spells that target them equal to (Magic) without penalty to the caster. In the case of benevolent magical ritual or spells with a maintenance cost, the target character, rather than the caster, gains control over the benevolent magical rituals or spells after they are cast. The efficiency of the magical matrix of the magical ritual or spell matters though, so the target character reduces the cost of the maintenance of a ritual or spell by any energy cost reduction of the caster (or, if applicable, the Power Enchantment of the casting magical item).

9. Characters use Magic as their magical sensory trait for detecting magical phenomena, such as magical items or mana levels. In the case of the magical sensory trait, the character calculates Magic Sense as equal to (Magic plus bonuses). Magery adds to Magic for the purpose of detecting magical phenomena related to that form of Magery. Characters may modify Magic Sense for +/-2 CP per +/-1 to their Magic Sense unless they have the 0 CP feature of 'Cannot change magical traits'.

10. Characters use Magic as their magical defensive trait against magical rituals and spells. In the case of the magical defensive traits, a character calculates Magic Defense as equal to ([Magic/2] + 3, plus bonuses). Magery adds to Magic for the purposes of calculating Magic Defense against rituals and spells related to that form of Magery.

11. Characters use Magic as their magical resistance trait against magical rituals and spells. In the case of the magical resistance trait, a character calculates Magic Resistance as equal to (Magic plus bonuses). Characters may modify Magic Resistance for +/-2 CP per +/-1 to their Magic Sense unless they have the 0 CP feature of 'Cannot change magical traits'. Magery adds to Magic for the purposes of calculating Magic Resistance against rituals and spells related to that form of Magery.

12. Characters use Magic as their control trait when learning and using magical rituals and spells (characters replace DX with Magic when using Innate Attack to attack with magical rituals and spells). In order to learn and use the magical rituals and spells of a particular system of magic (and any restricted magical items) without penalty, characters must have Magery 0+ related to that particular system of magic. At Magery 1+, characters gain a bonus to learning and using magical rituals and spells of the appropriate system of magic. For example, a character with Magic 14 and Magery 2 would have an effect Magic of 16 when learning and using magical rituals and spells of the appropriate system.

So, what do you think? Would you allow the above Magic attribute as a fifth attribute for GURPS. What changes or additions would you suggest?

[khorboth]

At first glance, I'd say there's real potential. There are plenty of examples of worlds where spellcasting is linked to innate "magicness" rather than to intelligence.

I probably wouldn't bother with the bit about "in a world without magic" because this feels like a world setting. If you find yourself in a world with this flavor of magic, you'll get to find out how magic you are. Maybe you're the Chosen One.

It looks like a big win for spellcasters in the basic magic system. with no extra points, Magi now have an energy reserve of 30 and can maintain 10 spells without penalty. Plus, every non-mage is now a battery.

It could be free points for non-casters as well. Every level of reduced Magic combined with increased magic resistance is worth 18 points. And the Fighter loses very little. So, max out your disad limit here. (If you're a munchkin)

Concentrating EVERYTHING a mage needs in one attribute is risky from a power-gamer standpoint too. In the base system, you need HT for energy and IQ to cast spells. It would also be handy to have DX to throw spells if you want to do anything at range. In this system, dumping all 4 original attributes and covering with spells might be attractive.

These are all details that can be worked out or worked around, though. The idea has real merit.

[Ulzgoroth]

I'm dubious that the magic stat is sufficiently useful for non-magic-users to keep it at 20 points per level, when all it gets them is magic defense and a mana pool that they can't really expend.

On the magic-user side, making mages dependent exclusively on their own attribute that has no relevance to anything but magic is...well, it's definitely not what I would want in a magic system.

+1 Magic -3 MP costs 11 points. Does it have any advantages over +1 Magery for 10 points? (I see one, but I think it's probably a mistake - magery doesn't add to magic perception.)

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

So, what do you think? Would you allow the above Magic attribute as a fifth attribute for GURPS. What changes or additions would you suggest?

I think 'allow' is the wrong framing. This is a clear campaign-level rules choice that's either on or off.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

8. Characters may maintain a number of beneficial magical rituals or spells that target them equal to (Magic) without penalty to the caster. In the case of benevolent magical ritual or spells with a maintenance cost, the target character, rather than the caster, gains control over the benevolent magical rituals or spells after they are cast. The efficiency of the magical matrix of the magical ritual or spell matters though, so the target character reduces the cost of the maintenance of a ritual or spell by any energy cost reduction of the caster (or, if applicable, the Power Enchantment of the casting magical item).

This seems like a limit set so high as to be almost never relevant.

[Nemoricus]

Have you seen Fifth Attribute in Pyramid 3/120? It also addresses the idea of a fifth basic attribute to cover the supernatural.

http://www.warehouse23.com/products/...ernate-gurps-v

[kirbwarrior]

It's a solid idea, but I have three points;

Why the start of 30MP? I can understand 10 being a little low, but 30 seems quite high. Some spells get much more attractive when they go from 'nearly your whole pool' to 'merely a third of your pool' in cost.

Slight nitpick; Healing and High HP applies to all forms of healing (FP, ER, MP, etc). You might already know that, but as a side effect the above point matters even more.

Why does Magery exist as a leveled trait or trait at all with this system? I can get Magery 0 (it has particular benefits, such as being allowed to get magic spells at all) but I feel like the leveled part just gets subsumed into the attribute.

[Celjabba]

If you haven't done so, you will want to check GURPS_Power-Ups_9_Alternate_Attributes

I agree with Khorboth, it is too easily exploitable as written.

You should forbid someone without magery to sell back magic and/or MP and buy up MR.

I also believe you give far too many MP, unless you plan to rewrite the spells too ?

I would not use it as written in my games, but it is a good start for "Magic as a 5th attribute", although it may set too much on a single attribute

[AlexanderHowl]

Well, MP exists to make the trait equivalent with Magery from RPM. As for the utility for non-mage users, it is the pool from which ceremonial magic draws from and it is the pool that is used to maintain benevolent spells. It does allow for more high powered magic, but I believe that it could be customized to fit any supernatural power (change Magic to Chi for Chi powers, Magic to Psyche for Psionic powers, Magic to Superiority for Supers powers, etc.).

As for the utility of Magery 1+, it is a talent that provides a skill bonus to Magic for sensing, resisting, learning, using, and defending against magic of a specific system. For example, imagine that a setting possesses six systems of magic: standard spell magic, standard ritual magic, spirit-assisted spell magic, spirit assisted ritual magic, threshold-limited spell magic, and threshold-limited ritual magic. Each system would have its own form of Magery that would interact with the Magic Attribute differently.

[Jinumon]

Originally Posted by Nemoricus

Have you seen Fifth Attribute in Pyramid 3/120? It also addresses the idea of a fifth basic attribute to cover the supernatural.

http://www.warehouse23.com/products/...ernate-gurps-v

Nemoricus is 100% right. This has already been done, and quite beautifully I might add.

Jinumon

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Well, MP exists to make the trait equivalent with Magery from RPM.

Ah, that makes sense. Still haven't dived much into it.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

As for the utility of Magery 1+, it is a talent that provides a skill bonus to Magic for sensing, resisting, learning, using, and defending against magic of a specific system. For example, imagine that a setting possesses six systems of magic: standard spell magic, standard ritual magic, spirit-assisted spell magic, spirit assisted ritual magic, threshold-limited spell magic, and threshold-limited ritual magic. Each system would have its own form of Magery that would interact with the Magic Attribute differently.

Ah, gotcha. I personally find it odd but completely reasonable.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Well, MP exists to make the trait equivalent with Magery from RPM.

RPM spell costs are radically different from Magic's. They might both use "energy points for magic", but they're not on the same scale, and while RPM reuses the name "Magery", the rules are careful to point out that it's not the same as the Advantage of the same name in Basic. (See the "Mixing Magic" section on RPM 45.)

Glance through the Grimoire section of Thaumatology: RPM. It's rare to see a spell cost in the single digits; lots of "easy" spells are routinely the 20s and 30s. There was a 350 that jumped out at me. Spell costs of 1 or 2 are vanishingly scarce. Meanwhile, in Magic, those onesy-twosy costs are bread and butter, a cost of 10 starts to seem prohibitively expensive, and 60 points is the usual derived cutoff for Q&D enchantment, the all-out effort from a dedicated group of mages to cast one big spell.

Threshold magic, using standard Magic spell costs, will often have a pool around 30 (or higher), but also comes with a much lower regen rate. It's designed specifically to allow a mage to throw one big spell, at the cost of rendering themselves useless for an extended period of time (plus high risk if they have to go over their threshold.)

The two aren't on the same scale, so copying one mechanical number from one system to the other won't result in similar effects. Start with how freely you want mages to be able to throw around those spells second by second, day after day, and see what number suits the spell costs, casting time, and mana / threshold / mojo regeneration rate.