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Old 09-15-2019, 01:33 AM   #1
Spyder1
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Default Help for 4ed GURPS Traveller campaign.

Not sure if I put this in the right thread, but here we go.

I’m thinking of running a 4ed GURPS Traveller game and was disappointed with the limited starships in Interstellar Wars, and wanted something more detailed than the Spaceships series of ebooks. So, I wanted to use the starships from 3ed Traveller (plus the setting), question is how much conversion Is necessary? Can I just drop the starships and space combat from IW and insert the 3ed versions?

Also I have a similar question about the 3ed Vehicle and Robot rules. I would like to port them into 4ed too.

If there are any links to anybody who posted stuff that would be helpful for this please let me know.

Also for this campaign does any one know if there was ever any book that did a version of the necromorphs from the Dead Space series of games, or the xenomorphs from the Alien series of movies.

Plus, any general advice for running a space/horror game would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Last edited by Spyder1; 09-15-2019 at 01:43 AM.
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Old 09-15-2019, 08:32 AM   #2
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Help for 4ed GURPS Traveller campaign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder1 View Post
Not sure if I put this in the right thread, but here we go.

Iím thinking of running a 4ed GURPS Traveller game and was disappointed with the limited starships in Interstellar Wars, and wanted something more detailed than the Spaceships series of ebooks. So, I wanted to use the starships from 3ed Traveller (plus the setting), question is how much conversion Is necessary? Can I just drop the starships and space combat from IW and insert the 3ed versions?

Also I have a similar question about the 3ed Vehicle and Robot rules. I would like to port them into 4ed too.
Early in 4e I ran a Space game which used 4e rules for character generation and skill use but 3e rules for gun combat and gear stats (including Ve2 built spaceships). It worked fine.

3e and 4e stuff together? Won't work due to wildly divergent HP assumptions and also some ACC problems. If you have 3e Traveller stuff and like it there's no reason to convert. 4e doesn't work "better" than 3e. It just uses different assumptions to "fix" problems you might not think are problems.

Specifically vehicle combats will be _much_ shorter in 4e due to revised HP. The phrase "eggshells armed with hammers" has been used multiple times.

Also, due to revised 4e damage to humans and autofire rules, Gauss weapons which are very strong choices in 3e Traveller are utter crap in 4e. Many fewer hts and P- damage.

Also, Interstellar Wars ships from that book are incompatible not only with 3e GT canon but Traveller canon in general. The most obvious example is the J-2 "Beowulf" Free Trader bit there are others. Also, a lot of ships have armor that's _much_ higher than is seen elsewhere in Traveller.

If I were doing Traveller in 4e I would first have to do a lot of work converting 3e to 4e stats and then I'd have to fix 4e issues. Much simpler to not convert in the first place.
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Old 09-15-2019, 10:48 AM   #3
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Help for 4ed GURPS Traveller campaign.

There are a couple of ways to address the old 'eggshells with cannons' issue. First, you can assume that every shot with beam weapons in point defense destroys one bomb, missile, or shell without rolling, making beam weapons superior to other weapons in defense and offense. Second, you can assume that compartmentalization and redundant systems gives spacecraft Injury Tolerance (Damage Reduction) equal to (1/SM). Third, you can assume that damage control (structural repairs) functions similar to First Aid on a spacecraft (sealing holes, reinforcing bulkheads, replacing cables, etc.) and repair equivalent dHP as First Aid (x SM).

So, imagine a TL 10 SM+15 dreadnought. With a tertiary weapon battery containing 30 improved VRF laser turrets (RoF 200 each) in its central hull, it could automatically neutralize 6,000 bombs, missiles, and shells per turn without rolling. If it suffered 300 points of damage after dDR, it would only suffer 20 dHP damage due to its Damage Reduction (/15). After combat, it would heal 1d+1 ◊ 15 dHP on a successful damage control roll, an average of 67.5 dHP.

The end result would be very robust spacecraft that could survive hours (potentially days) of battle against equivalent spacecraft. Smaller spacecraft would also have greater survivability, but they would lack the robust defenses and armor of the SM+15 spacecraft. Of course, swarm tactics could work by overwhelming the point defense of the dreadnought with sheer numbers, but that would require hundreds of fights firing thousands of missiles or shells evert turn.
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Old 09-15-2019, 01:02 PM   #4
weby
 
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Default Re: Help for 4ed GURPS Traveller campaign.

If you use starships as they were mostly used in classical Traveller games,you can just use the 3rd edition ships and rules as is.

That is starships do not interact with other types of things. As in ships attack only other ships, space stations and such and things like ground combat are handled by the PCs stepping out from the ship and doing whatever.

The possible problems come if you mix things, that is PCs want to use their starship to blast a bad guys stronghold or something...
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Old 09-16-2019, 02:00 AM   #5
Spyder1
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Default Re: Help for 4ed GURPS Traveller campaign.

I was really keen on using 4th Edition to do this campaign, but maybe I should go to 3ed and save 4ed for a Fantasy or Supers game. I really prefer the 3ed timeline for Traveller anyway. What do you guys/girls think? 🤔
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Old 09-16-2019, 04:52 AM   #6
Aldric
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Default Re: Help for 4ed GURPS Traveller campaign.

Wish I could help, but I have no knowledge of 3ed and I'm already struggling to get 4ed spaceships to do what I need it to do.
I would try to avoid an hybrid system if I were you. Sooner or later your characters will want to get inside a ship by hand, or use its weapons against something designed with a different system and then you could end up having to adjust things on the fly.
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Old 09-16-2019, 07:25 AM   #7
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Help for 4ed GURPS Traveller campaign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldric View Post
Wish I could help, but I have no knowledge of 3ed and I'm already struggling to get 4ed spaceships to do what I need it to do.
I would try to avoid an hybrid system if I were you. Sooner or later your characters will want to get inside a ship by hand, or use its weapons against something designed with a different system and then you could end up having to adjust things on the fly.
DR is unchanged between 3e and 4e.

The change in broad philosopy for energy weapons from lots of dice to fewer dice with Armor Divisors is an attempt to adapt to 4e's radically lower HP. It's not a fundamental change in how things work though. The other changes in weapons are hw ACC and Rcl and Rapid Fire work. There you do need to choose one system and stick with it.
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Old 09-16-2019, 07:27 AM   #8
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Help for 4ed GURPS Traveller campaign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder1 View Post
I was really keen on using 4th Edition to do this campaign, but maybe I should go to 3ed and save 4ed for a Fantasy or Supers game. I really prefer the 3ed timeline for Traveller anyway. What do you guys/girls think? 🤔
You can use 4e character generation and Skill mechnics with 3e gun combat and vehicle rules. There are no problems doing so.
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Old 09-20-2019, 06:48 PM   #9
hal
 
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Default Re: Help for 4ed GURPS Traveller campaign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
You can use 4e character generation and Skill mechnics with 3e gun combat and vehicle rules. There are no problems doing so.
I'll second his comment and add this:

To this day, I still run GURPS TRAVELLER using the 3e rules for equipment and weapons and such, and totally ignore the material in Interstellar Wars etc.

Why?

I'm old.

Ok, not what I meant to say. Um, well, ok, I AM old! I first played Traveller in 1978, and haven't stopped playing it since that day. Granted, I have a few years between campaigns and all, but there are three basic campaign worlds/Universes that I utilize:

Traveller
Harn World
Atlantis (Bard Games version before it became Atlantis: The Second Age)

Toss in a few home brews here or there, and that's been my fun since 1986...

Which brings me to my next point. I was there when Classic Traveller (first edition) as well as when MAYDAY came out. I was there for AHZANTI HIGH LIGHTNING, as well as Megatraveller, Traveller the New Era, Traveller 4th edition, GURPS TRAVELLER, Mongoose Traveller, and backed TRAVELLER 5th edition.

I STILL return back to GURPS TRAVELLER when I run a campaign. I still miss the HIGH GUARD fleet combat resolution system. I still miss the MAYDAY rules and Book 2 combat from Classic Traveller. If it were me? I'd plunk down the $35 for the CD ROMS from Far Future Enterprises (Owned by Marc Miller) for the classic Traveller. If you like the idea of buying the older versions and getting a break on the price, buy 4 CD ROMS and pay the price of only three. Me? I picked up the CT, MT, T4, and TAS magazines (and paid full price for all four instead of the newer discount).

The point is, you have a very nice opportunity to pick and choose from various system and incorporate them into the game. Truth be told? I ran a GURPS 3e campaign using GURPS rules, but the Classic Traveller ship rules - all before GURPS TRAVELLER came out. I sort of like the GURPS TRAVELLER rules for ship building (by the way, there is a free app for building GURPS TRAVELLER ships by Thomas Bont - get it, its FREE). The only REAL problem I have with GURPS TRAVELLER rules for ship combats are the Meson gun weapons rules. Back when GURPS TRAVELLER 1st edition came out, I crafted my own "Home brew rules" where MESON guns were built to the specs found in CT's HIGH GUARD 2nd edition. I used the concepts explained in MAYDAY plus HIGH GUARD to build my own Spinal Mounts A, B, C, etc down to the last letter spinal mount in High Guard. If I can do it with Excel, so can you. ;)

I even had my own "Norden Bombsight" analog for a targeting computer that gleaned a critial +1 bonus to hit that the standard rules don't have, but when using GURPS VEHICLES computer rules, is legal (hint: hard-wired computers gain a +1 complexity rating, but the targeting software is hard wired into the machine itself - think using machine language coding to get it to do what you want in real life). I created what I called the "point defense lasers" - its offensive punch was non-existent, but its ability to shoot down incoming missiles was VERY good.

Then they published GURPS TRAVELLER STARSHIPS and made point defense lasers a moot point. ;)

In any event - the point you need to remember is this:

HAVE FUN!

Converting ships from 3e to 4e may be fun for you - it isn't fun for me, that's for sure! But if it makes you happy to do it, then go for it. On the other hand, experiment. Try playing MAYDAY as it was written back in the day. Try HIGH GUARD as it was written. You may find yourself dumping the GURPS TRAVELLER ship combat rules entirely and using the older CT rules. If you do, good for you!
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Old 09-20-2019, 06:50 PM   #10
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: Help for 4ed GURPS Traveller campaign.

By the by Spyder? If you click on my name to the left of my post - you will find that I have the option allowing people to email me from the Forums. I noted that you do not have that option (otherwise I'd have given you the URL for the Thomas Bont application that is freely available from SJGames).

If you want, email me, or you may want to enable the ability for people to email you privately. Just saying...
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