08-10-2022, 06:15 PM | #61 | ||
On Notice
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Costs in GURPS dollars
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*Legally Dead — Disadvantages: Social Stigma (Dead) [-20];Wealth (Dead Broke) [-25]. Features: Taboo Traits (Social Position (GURPS Undead) *Dolphins — "Most have no possessions of any sort and are thus Dead Broke." (GURPS Banestorm) Quote:
I love how DF claims that no one Filthy Rich would raid a dungeon. This ignores the Filthy Rich who would raid dungeons not for wealth but excitement or prestige.
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08-10-2022, 06:40 PM | #62 | |
On Notice
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Re: Costs in GURPS dollars
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Carl Sagan's Demon Haunted world pointed to how President Eisenhauer was deeply considered because half of Americans were below average intelligence as an example of how people misunderstand statistics.
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08-11-2022, 06:11 AM | #63 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Costs in GURPS dollars
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*This could easily be a legitimate idea for a character in DF - assign the character with some Wealth level, and make a note the character theoretically has a good deal more wealth, but cannot access it because he's hiding his identity; such a character may have a relevant Claim to Hospitality to represent the fact he can temporarily reveal his true identity for better accommodations. **Which can, of course, be an adventure seed - your party has been hired to accompany the ill-prepared Richard McRichpants into the dungeon, trying to keep him safe without angering him by not letting him do anything.
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08-11-2022, 09:06 AM | #64 | ||
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Re: Costs in GURPS dollars
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A titled level character has is a minimum 2,000 gp/level/week upkeep while a Blacksmith, an Average job (per Middle Ages I pg 63), is 30 gp/month as a hireling which per Basic Set is at least $700/month. To simplify things we will assume a Blacksmith is a freeman job with $600/month upkeep or ~25 gp/month upkeep. Assuming level 10 (to make the math easier) some 86,667 gp/month is being spent minimum for upkeep or a staggering ~3,466.68x what the blacksmith cost of living is. We are somewhere between Great noble and Royal family with the $2,080,008 upkeep this all produces. Just to keep form going bankrupt at level 10 you are looking at likely Multimillionaire. And if Multimillionaires are stumbling around in the underdark then certainly Filthy rich are. /s Seriously the economics of your average sword of sorcery world is FUBARed up one side and down the other. One problem when talking about "dungeons" is "Dungeon — A generic term for any castle, location, or ruin that serves as the site of an underground adventure" (DMGe1 pg 228) So the Underdark is effectively one big dungeon. Much of the Queen of the Demonweb pits module (adventure) are dungeons and it starts at level 10.
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08-11-2022, 09:42 AM | #65 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Costs in GURPS dollars
"Adventurer" was clearly a respectable profession by default for That Other Game, but GURPS DF seems to treat adventurers as itinerant murder-hobos likely frowned upon by high society, but accepted due to their necessity. Certainly, one can run DF in a setting where being a successful adventurer earns you a peerage, lands, even your own kingdom (perhaps inherited due to marrying a prince/princess, established by conquest, etc)... but seeing as Status isn't an available trait, I suspect that's not the intent. But we're getting pretty far afield of the thread's topic.
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08-11-2022, 12:01 PM | #66 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
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Re: Costs in GURPS dollars
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Because GURPS is not a simulator in which you plug in TL as a parameter and it spits out "you can have this" as output. The first purpose of TLs on equipment is to give GMs a tool with which to define their game world. Dungeon Fantasy does this by saying the campaign is TL3 but that weapons and armor from TL0–4 are available as listed. Because GURPS Dungeon Fantasy is not trying to be historically accurate. Quote:
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08-11-2022, 01:05 PM | #67 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Costs in GURPS dollars
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08-11-2022, 03:44 PM | #68 | ||
On Notice
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Location: Sumter, SC
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Re: Costs in GURPS dollars
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"A typical campaign used to involve a dungeon full of horrible monsters and traps, and a nearby castle or town where supplies and rumors were readily available for those with the gold to buy them" "Even players with cleric characters did not usually know the name or nature of the god they worshiped; they knew only that through prayer their PCs could obtain various spells to aid the party." "The motivations of kings and churches were unimportant, unless they were offering bounties for the heads of particular monsters. War and politics were unknown; adventuring in dungeons was the major activity of the strong and bold, and all else revolved around adventuring." — For King and Country (Dragon #101, Sept 1985) All that could just as easily apply to DF and there in is the rub. Status didn't exist there either, not really. But Wealth certainly did. Heck, WoW has more in common with that era of D&D and with DF than with any later version. You go to a "dungeon" (instance), slaughter everything you can find and get gear, materials to make gear, gold to repair gear and/or get supplies. You may have been taken on all the dangers of Outland, killed the Lich King, defeated the Jailer and might have enough gold to buy every building in any one of the capital cities, pay off the Brotherhood, and still have enough gold to, in theory, set up your own kingdom and yet at the end of the day to the citizens of Azathoth you are just a nameless adventurer. In the world of WoW just as in D&D or DF you have no real status even if you have more gold than likely is in the coffers of Stormwind and Orgrimmar combined (ie are Filthy Rich if not Multimillionaire).
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08-12-2022, 04:11 AM | #69 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: Costs in GURPS dollars
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In particular, in almost all the groups I knew, clerics' view of life and adventuring was very much shaped by the nature of the gods they served. The idea of not knowing which god you followed would have been ridiculous: the normal assumption would have been that anyone claiming that was trying to conceal their religion, probably because it was extremely anti-social.
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08-12-2022, 08:01 AM | #70 | ||
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Re: Costs in GURPS dollars
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Also it was not so much conceal their religion but conceal part of their religion. The mystery cults of Ancient Rome weren't "extremely anti-social" but rather part of them was secret to those outside of the religion (something that drives archeologists up the wall). In WoW Troll shamans get their power from Loa (GURPS Voodoo can help with understanding some of that) and I doubt any player Troll shaman could tell you which Loa they get their powers from...or even care. Heck, the DMG1e expressly stated that "All magic and cleric spells" drew "energy from the Positive or Negative Material Plane" meaning Clerics did not get their power from respective deities (pg 40). It was so silly that OD&D and AD&D1 clerics could call upon themselves to cast 1-3rd level spells (documented in Murphy Rules as "Me, Myself, and I") If deities really mattered that should not have been possible but that is what the rules effectively said. Paladins rather being warriors of the faith (regardless of what that faith was) were locked in to LG...even if the deity they served was NG or CG. It was so bad that Horus got his own CG Paladins in an official supplement. Schisms would be another source of issue with Clerics as well as "daughter" religions. GURPS Religion touches on this and more and for anyone serious about "realistic" cleric characters is a must have. Going back to costs before this goes even further off the rails. IIRC you can't have Vow of poverty and get points for having less than "normal" income. Though in a "realistic" the vow of poverty may be a bad joke — if monk were really that poor Henry VIII wouldn't have gone around seizing their lands. Speaking of Kings many of the Middles Ages had cast flow problems. Sure they were Filthy Rich, in theory, but much of that wealth was tied up in land and the fact that armies outside of the knights directly under the king were mercenaries. Heck, I could see a Filthy Rich noble go into a dungeon for not only extra wealth but for man power. He could harass, via false flag operation, his neighbors with the creatures who figured working for him was better than dying. He wouldn't have to pay them as much as regular mercenaries and they could soften up his foes allowing the regular knights and mercenaries to move in.
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