Weapon Categories

[JimmyPlenty]

Was wondering...

Knifes/swords & Axes/Hammers/Maces

What is the difference that makes them different categories?



An overhead swing is the only thing I am coming up with. More likened to clubbing/crushing attacks?

[Axly Suregrip]

Hi Jimmy,
There are two main differences in swinging a sword compared to swinging an axe or mace.

- the length of the strike area. If you miscalculate the swing or your target moves unpredictably mid swing you get two very different results. With a sword you strike higher or lower along the blade missing the sweet spot but still potentially lethal. With a mace or axe you miss with the head, thus coming up short and missing entirely or striking to far and striking with the haft.

- the balance is different. Axes/Maces have a heavy weight at the end. This changes where the weapons center of gravity is.

The longer the axe, the more you feel both of the above. Specially with one handed axe/maces.

With two handed axes/hammers verses two handed swords, how you grip them differs also. You can have your hands further apart with the battle axe verse swords, and often down when blocking.


The above from personal experience in the SCA. It has been decades and yes I know SCA is not reality, but it can help with some of this. For example, I never did get used to the strike area of a long axe and would often strike with the haft.

[JimmyPlenty]

Thank you Axly for the throughout explanation. That really helped!

[Shadekeep]

Besides their differences in wielding and balance, I also see them a morphologically distinct. The sword category contains edged (or pointed, in the case of the rapier) weapons which are almost all blade, with a short hilt for gripping. The ax/mace category is a mix of edged and blunt weapons which are predominantly haft, with damage delivered by the head of the weapon. Swords generally do cutting or piercing damage, whereas ax/mace weapons do crushing or splitting damage.

Naturally the technique for wielding these weapons effectively would be quite different between the two categories. And the distinction of a Fencing talent for the rapier further elucidates how that is different from edged sword combat as well.

[Jeff Lord]

I love this game (don't we all?) but I'm not a particular fan of the new weapons talents, esp. Fencer. I still just use the old Fencing talent. :)

I agree completely with Shadekeep regarding his observations on the morphological distinctions of the various types of weapons. However. . .

I see the Fencer talent, indeed all of the new weapons talents, as an attempt to simulate how people think the weapons are used (quite cinematic) as opposed to how they actually are (sometimes not very cinematic at all). Also, the Fencer talent applies to the rapier, saber, and main-gauche. Why these? Beats me! In any case, the techniques involved in using the rapier and the saber are extremely dissimilar.

So I can't quite agree with, "And the distinction of a Fencing talent for the rapier further elucidates how that is different from edged sword combat as well."

And don't even get me started on the "contre-pointe." ;)

[Terquem]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lord

I love this game (don't we all?) but I'm not a particular fan of the new weapons talents, esp. Fencer. I still just use the old Fencing talent. :)

I agree completely with Shadekeep regarding his observations on the morphological distinctions of the various types of weapons. However. . .

I see the Fencer talent, indeed all of the new weapons talents, as an attempt to simulate how people think the weapons are used (quite cinematic) as opposed to how they actually are (sometimes not very cinematic at all). Also, the Fencer talent applies to the rapier, saber, and main-gauche. Why these? Beats me! In any case, the techniques involved in using the rapier and the saber are extremely dissimilar.

So I can't quite agree with, "And the distinction of a Fencing talent for the rapier further elucidates how that is different from edged sword combat as well."

And don't even get me started on the "contre-pointe." ;)

"So, you are using Bonetti's defense against me, eh?"

You mean "real" sword fighting doesn't include saying this phrase at least once every time

[Jeff Lord]

"Real" sword fighting?

Not sure what you're trying to say, but interestingly enough "Bonetti's Defense" is one of the few things a historical fencer would be hard pressed to identify!

We have no written accounts of any of his instruction (nothing whatsoever). We do have records of him being bludgeoned by a Thames waterman's oar though. So maybe his defense only applies to oars? If so, it's surprisingly ineffective.