Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > Roleplaying in General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-06-2019, 11:44 AM   #21
Dalillama
 
Dalillama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default Re: Post apocalypse alcohol

Although depending on how recent the apocalypse is and where you are you might well be able to raid a brewery or brewer's supplier for some starter yeasts, and after that you just need to reserve some of the mash as starter for the next batch.
Dalillama is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2019, 01:16 PM   #22
zorg
Experimental Subject
 
zorg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: saarbrücken, germany
Default Re: Post apocalypse alcohol

Quote:
Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
But it generally leads to more of that horrible rotgut. There are a lot of different yeasts and other microorganisms out there that will be happy to grow in your solution and produce all kinds of stuff in addition to (or instead of) ethanol and carbon dioxide. Sometimes you want this - the aforementioned fungi that break down starches, or the lactobacteria in sourdough cultures - but if you are going for a specific flavor, you need a rather specific set of microorganisms. Sure you could toss a pinch of sourdough starter in your barrel and the product will contain ethanol, but....
Well, both Lambic style beer, and a lot of mead styles assume wild fermentation. I haven‘t tried it, but I read a book about wild fermentation, and the author swears by it. It seems viable when you can no longer order Wyeast online...
__________________
Like a mail order mogwai...but nerdier - Nymdok
understanding is a three-edged sword
zorg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2019, 09:08 PM   #23
namada
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Default Re: Post apocalypse alcohol

Quote:
Originally Posted by zorg View Post
Well, both Lambic style beer, and a lot of mead styles assume wild fermentation. I haven‘t tried it, but I read a book about wild fermentation, and the author swears by it. It seems viable when you can no longer order Wyeast online...
I haven't tried wild fermentation personally, either, but the local home brewer club has done it plenty. There's never been anything off-putting in the flavor from the finished products I've tried. Sour is the primary "wild" flavor you'll get, and sour beers taste great!

Once you achieve 3% ABV, there's nothing dangerous that can live in that level of alcohol, IIRC, maybe it's 4%. This is an important bit to remember also, beer may be safer to drink than water, depending on the situation. Small beer, common in Europe, is something I have done before, and it came out with an ABV of 2.7% in that batch, tasted better than any commercial light beer, but was a great, refreshing beer in the summer heat. I never had an issue with any type of infection, but I also had very good modern equipment, sanitizers, and practices - some of which will be lacking in a post apocalyptic setting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalillama View Post
Although depending on how recent the apocalypse is and where you are you might well be able to raid a brewery or brewer's supplier for some starter yeasts, and after that you just need to reserve some of the mash as starter for the next batch.
You can also get active yeast from bottles of certain commercial beers - those unfiltered & unpasteurized.

Last edited by namada; 07-06-2019 at 09:10 PM. Reason: Added second quote & reply
namada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2019, 10:31 PM   #24
Terebrant
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Post apocalypse alcohol

Quote:
Originally Posted by zorg View Post
Well, both Lambic style beer, and a lot of mead styles assume wild fermentation. I haven‘t tried it, but I read a book about wild fermentation, and the author swears by it. It seems viable when you can no longer order Wyeast online...
This might be gameable. I had a recipe for cider that used bottled juice and added apple skins for fermentation. For when the players have already looted the alcohol in a shop but still want to drink (and can wait a few days).
Terebrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2019, 12:28 AM   #25
Bengt
 
Bengt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ronneby, Sweden
Default Re: Post apocalypse alcohol

Quote:
Originally Posted by namada View Post
Once you achieve 3% ABV, there's nothing dangerous that can live in that level of alcohol, IIRC, maybe it's 4%. This is an important bit to remember also, beer may be safer to drink than water, depending on the situation. Small beer, common in Europe, is something I have done before, and it came out with an ABV of 2.7% in that batch, tasted better than any commercial light beer, but was a great, refreshing beer in the summer heat. I never had an issue with any type of infection, but I also had very good modern equipment, sanitizers, and practices - some of which will be lacking in a post apocalyptic setting.
This. E.g. the Swedish Karoliner army (active around 1700, so TL4 I guess) only drank beer to avoid contaminated water. For this reason I would expect beer making to quickly move from the hobby it is pre apoc to something every settlement do.
Bengt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2019, 01:49 AM   #26
ak_aramis
 
ak_aramis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alsea, OR
Default Re: Post apocalypse alcohol

Quote:
Originally Posted by zorg View Post
Especially in a post apocalyptic setting - but also in the real world - you don‘t even need to add yeast; wild fermentation is a thing.
Leaving it open to wild yeast, for mead, results in losing a good portion to wasps, hornets, and bees... Flies aren't generally a big issue; the wasps will keep them at bay.

But your bread yeast will work just fine...

Note that cultivated strains are much faster than wild strains, and in urban areas, the wild strains often produce unpleasant side chemicals. Why faster? Because you're dumping tens of thousands of fungal cells, instead of the half-a-dozen or less the wild will start with.
ak_aramis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2019, 08:42 AM   #27
namada
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Default Re: Post apocalypse alcohol

Quote:
Originally Posted by ak_aramis View Post
Leaving it open to wild yeast, for mead, results in losing a good portion to wasps, hornets, and bees... Flies aren't generally a big issue; the wasps will keep them at bay.
Wild fermentation means leaving it open to the air, not to insects. There will be some sort of screen for that. In Belgium, for example, Lambics and Flanders style beers were traditionally left to wild fermentation (some still are, but it's increasingly rare because science produces a more consistent commercial product - something consumers today look for, but not something folks will be looking for in a post-apoc setting.) They'd pump the beer into a loft, leaving the tanks wide open, while the screened windows were left open, and the fermentation would begin by the time the workers returned the next day. It wouldn't complete fermenting until a couple of weeks later, but even with the best equipment, a homebrewer can only get their beer thoroughly fermented in as fast as 4 days - that involves massive injections of yeast & pure oxygen. I always let my beer sit for at least a week to ensure complete fermentation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ak_aramis View Post
Note that cultivated strains are much faster than wild strains...[snip, reply below]...Why faster? Because you're dumping tens of thousands of fungal cells, instead of the half-a-dozen or less the wild will start with.
As you say, commercial yeasts contain thousands of times the number of cells that will ferment your beer via wild fermentation, so yes, it'll be faster to start and finish fermenting, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ak_aramis View Post
and in urban areas, the wild strains often produce unpleasant side chemicals.
This, I think, is simply untrue. Belgium Lambics were produced right in the heart of cities historically, as that was were the market for commercial beer was - out in the countryside, folks were self-sufficient & made their own. Commercial breweries wouldn't make a profit there. In the cities, on the other hand, you've got loads of people looking for a drink and lack the time to brew their own.

As I mentioned before, the local homebrew club did wild fermentation, right in the heart of a city of 250,000 and right next door to a swamp too - the only thing you could taste was a slight sourness to the stuff (they did wine, mead & beer), which didn't occur when using commercial yeasts - & I think that was due to some bacteria settling in along with the yeast (the same bacteria that sours Lambics & Flanders, btw). They simply covered plastic buckets with netting that allowed the air (not insects) in.

As for bread yeast, I've actually often read that does produce unpleasant flavors (rather bready for a beer, perhaps), low alcohol (compared to commercial varieties, so it may be comparable to wild yeasts), and tends to not settle out, leaving your beer rather cloudy. Though, I have no actual experience with that, or personally know anyone that's tried it, I should add. I mean, it will make alcohol, and it will make something that can get you drunk, it's the same family of yeast as those that have been cultivated for beer & wine, if not the same varieties. I just can't see it being capable of making a good beer or wine - not without decades of use, and thus breeding out unpleasant traits, as has been done with varieties used for beer & wine.
namada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2019, 09:15 AM   #28
zorg
Experimental Subject
 
zorg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: saarbrücken, germany
Default Re: Post apocalypse alcohol

Nice - the gun threads attract shooters, this thread attracts homebrewers ;)
__________________
Like a mail order mogwai...but nerdier - Nymdok
understanding is a three-edged sword
zorg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2019, 09:52 AM   #29
Irish Wolf
 
Irish Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Earth, mostly
Default Re: Post apocalypse alcohol

What I have learned from this is that if I know there's an apocalypse coming, along with canned food and can openers I should stock up on a variety of brewing yeasts. I don't brew myself, but it sounds like it would be worth its weight in platinum as trade goods.
__________________
If you break the laws of Man, you go to prison.

If you break the laws of God, you go to Hell.

If you break the laws of Physics, you go to Sweden and receive a Nobel Prize.
Irish Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2019, 10:20 AM   #30
zorg
Experimental Subject
 
zorg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: saarbrücken, germany
Default Re: Post apocalypse alcohol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Wolf View Post
What I have learned from this is that if I know there's an apocalypse coming, along with canned food and can openers I should stock up on a variety of brewing yeasts. I don't brew myself, but it sounds like it would be worth its weight in platinum as trade goods.
The nice thing is, if you‘re brewing continuously, you can cultivate and grow your yeasts, so you‘re less dependent on your stores.
__________________
Like a mail order mogwai...but nerdier - Nymdok
understanding is a three-edged sword
zorg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.