Buffing ST

[Shostak]

Since there has been so much talk about ST being a dump stat, here's a thought for how to make investing in ST more attractive. As it stands, figures under 30 ST suffer -2DX when taking 5 hits or more, and fall down at 8 hits in one turn. What if:

ST -2DX Falls
16 6 9
20 7 10
25 8 12

[David Bofinger]

Originally Posted by Shostak

As it stands, figures under 30 ST suffer -2DX when taking 5 hits or more, and fall down at 8 hits in one turn.

This seems very sensible. Perhaps a more general rule that doesn't need a table? Something like: you suffer a -1 DX for taking 1/4 or more of your (full) strength in a turn, -2 DX for taking 1/2 your strength, and get knocked down if you take 3/4 of your strength.

Or if you want the rules to work the same as for giants &c then some other formula, slower than linear.

[hcobb]

Make each point of ST count.

Roll two dice and if this total is less than or equal to the amount of pre armor damage taken this turn then roll two dice against ST to better this success.

If the figure wins then there is no further penalty. If they fail then their next action is at -2 DX for losing their balance. And try again with three dice vs damage vs three dice vs ST. If the figure fails to beat the impact force they fail over.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

This seems very sensible. Perhaps a more general rule that doesn't need a table? Something like: you suffer a -1 DX for taking 1/4 or more of your (full) strength in a turn, -2 DX for taking 1/2 your strength, and get knocked down if you take 3/4 of your strength.

Good suggestion, David; formulae are better than tables. If we tweak it so that 1/4 ST gives -2DX , 1/2 ST gives -3DX AND a 4d/ST roll or fall, and 3/4 ST gives an auto-fall, it keeps things a bit closer to RAW for the -2DX threshold for stronger figures and with at least a chance to fall at approximately 1/2 ST. It would need some better mechanism for the saving roll, though, since very strong figures will easily succeed most of the time.

[MikMod]

There's always the original advantages of great strength. I didn't really understand why those got removed, so I still use them.

And I do occasional rough checks on weight carried.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by MikMod

There's always the original advantages of great strength. I didn't really understand why those got removed, so I still use them.

And I do occasional rough checks on weight carried.

Yeah, I did like how ST made wearing armor easier. But, with the new XP progression, getting up to 20 seems pretty unlikely and up to 28 all but impossible. With the tweaks in my reply to David's suggestion, the benefits of investing in ST (aside from the amount of damage you can sustain) are felt at every multiple of 4. It makes a mere 3 damage at 12 ST a lot more serious than RAW.

Another possibility would be to keep David's suggestion of -1DX at 1/4 ST, and then have -2DX kick in at 1/3 ST, keeping fall-down damage at 1/2. That eliminates the saving roll that falls apart at high levels of ST.

Sorry--my original posts here have essentially been thinking out loud rather than a more thoroughly thought out idea.

[larsdangly]

An adapted version of the old advantages of great ST (recognizing that the scale of possible scores is more limited) would be welcome.

[lordtarim]

Some things i have tried before is to allow fighters to buy extra ST as "hit points" (split ST scores) at a rate of 2HP for the cost of 1 current attribute increase. All rolls against ST as well as requirements for weapons remained at the lower ST score and damage/injury came from the higher ST score as well as armor wearing reductions with the old advantages of great ST rules. There was a limit of 2X your actual ST score for the total "hit points" one could get, so someone with a 10 ST could have 20 hit points maximum (10 from his ST 10 and 10 extra bought with their next 5 "cash ins"). I also extended this to wizards for extra fatigue (with the same limits) but it could only be used to power spells, sort of like the new mana staff rules. (off topic but related: I also did this for "skill points" to buy new spells or talents with a limit of 2X your IQ) I found that these helped create more grounded/rounded characters without suffering attribute bloat and thus breaking the nice 3D6 bell curve the system is built on.

[larsdangly]

An interesting thought. Actually, there is already something so similar to this in the game that an elegant solution might be to adapt it: Just as wizards can invest XP in purchasing mana for spell casting, perhaps heroes could invest the same number of XP to purchase a reserve of 'damage ablation' ST points. There is also already something a bit like this in the Supers rules from the Legacy Edition compendium. The end result would be a more cinematic game, but I suspect it would remain very similar in most respects. The big change would be that a highly experienced hero would be able to fight through a crowd without the use of magic items, in ways that are not possible using standard rules.

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

An interesting thought. Actually, there is already something so similar to this in the game that an elegant solution might be to adapt it: Just as wizards can invest XP in purchasing mana for spell casting, perhaps heroes could invest the same number of XP to purchase a reserve of 'damage ablation' ST points. There is also already something a bit like this in the Supers rules from the Legacy Edition compendium. The end result would be a more cinematic game, but I suspect it would remain very similar in most respects. The big change would be that a highly experienced hero would be able to fight through a crowd without the use of magic items, in ways that are not possible using standard rules.

Ooo, that is an interesting idea, Lars... we could even call them 'Hero Points'.