Stairs - Page 2

Jeff Lord · 05-11-2020, 12:44 PM

Whether or not being in the higher or lower position on stairs gives some advantage is the question here.

I've done a fair bit of "trained" historical fencing. And while I generally agree that, 'what comes from above defeats what comes from below,' I also don't think it necessarily applies to combat on stairs. We are talking about elevation here, not oberhau v. unterhau.

This also applies to "swiping" at someones legs; if they are the closest thing to you, then it's not a "rookie" move.

All that aside, I wouldn't bet the farm that being on a lower step was the best idea. I simply think that Senturian raised some interesting points.

FWIW, I think that both combatants would probably be disadvantaged to some degree.

Skarg · 05-11-2020, 02:49 PM

Mainly, to me, "stairs have no effect" seems like an uninteresting missed opportunity to have the game situation matter in an interesting appropriate-seeming way.

FWIW, for slight height advantages as on stairs, GURPS gives an advantage for the higher figure to hit the lower figure's head, and a penalty to hit their legs and feet, and vice versa, and assigns different penalties based on the height measured to one-foot precision, starting at up to two feet. At up to three feet, there's a +1/-1 defense advantage to the higher figure. At up to four feet, the defense advantage rises to +2/-2 and some body parts become unreachable, at up to five feet, +3/-3 (!), at up to 6 feet, only the feet and legs of the higher figure can be reached, and only the lower figure's head can be reached. More height difference and you'd need longer weapons or to get into weird body positions to reach each other.

Steve Plambeck · 05-13-2020, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyPlenty

OK. So standing on a table (1 1/2 feet) give a +2 DX bonus. (ITL 119)

But no to stairs? 4 feet away (1 hex) on stairs is at least 1 1/2 ft.

More even. If these were steep stairs (45 degree incline) the rise would equal the run, making one hex away a whole 4 feet up or down. Typical household stairs in the US today rise at a 37.5 degree angle, but that's an awkward number to deal with. For vertical dungeon mapping I like to round that to 30 degrees, which is quite easy to climb. But even then, 1 hex away is 2.64 feet up or down for 4 foot hexes (or a nice even 2 feet if using 3 foot hexes, which is what I do).

Either way, you start fighting on that terrain there should be some adjustments.

The higher figure can always bend or stoop to reach a lower target, but the lower figure cannot make themselves taller no matter how straight they stand. So at the very least I'd give a -1 DX to the lower figure, although that's not enough to be interesting. More fun might be +1 DX for the higher figure, and -2 DX for the lower one.

Jeff Lord · 05-13-2020, 02:31 PM

Yes, and I think "bending" or "stooping" should incur a DX penalty - not a bonus!

How about -1 DX for the higher position and -2 DX for the lower?

Steve Plambeck · 05-13-2020, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lord

Yes, and I think "bending" or "stooping" should incur a DX penalty - not a bonus!

How about -1 DX for the higher position and -2 DX for the lower?

Yes I think I like that even better. Awkward footing impedes both fighters.

05-11-2020, 12:44 PM	#11
Jeff Lord Join Date: Jul 2018	Re: Stairs Whether or not being in the higher or lower position on stairs gives some advantage is the question here. I've done a fair bit of "trained" historical fencing. And while I generally agree that, 'what comes from above defeats what comes from below,' I also don't think it necessarily applies to combat on stairs. We are talking about elevation here, not oberhau v. unterhau. This also applies to "swiping" at someones legs; if they are the closest thing to you, then it's not a "rookie" move. All that aside, I wouldn't bet the farm that being on a lower step was the best idea. I simply think that Senturian raised some interesting points. FWIW, I think that both combatants would probably be disadvantaged to some degree.

05-11-2020, 02:49 PM	#12
Skarg Join Date: May 2015	Re: Stairs Mainly, to me, "stairs have no effect" seems like an uninteresting missed opportunity to have the game situation matter in an interesting appropriate-seeming way. FWIW, for slight height advantages as on stairs, GURPS gives an advantage for the higher figure to hit the lower figure's head, and a penalty to hit their legs and feet, and vice versa, and assigns different penalties based on the height measured to one-foot precision, starting at up to two feet. At up to three feet, there's a +1/-1 defense advantage to the higher figure. At up to four feet, the defense advantage rises to +2/-2 and some body parts become unreachable, at up to five feet, +3/-3 (!), at up to 6 feet, only the feet and legs of the higher figure can be reached, and only the lower figure's head can be reached. More height difference and you'd need longer weapons or to get into weird body positions to reach each other.

05-13-2020, 02:31 PM	#14
Jeff Lord Join Date: Jul 2018	Re: Stairs Yes, and I think "bending" or "stooping" should incur a DX penalty - not a bonus! How about -1 DX for the higher position and -2 DX for the lower?