New Scenario: Dogpile - Page 2

ghostofjfd · 09-20-2016, 10:29 PM

Question about variant 5.1: Is the idea that the Mk VI has two external missiles and none in the missile racks?

wolf90 · 09-21-2016, 04:33 PM

This is all incredibly helpful! Please keep it coming.

On the (sole) time I beat the scenario, I initially ran towards one corner and took out the LADs, giving me a "safe zone" out of the other LADs' umbrellas. My initial turns were fairly successful with good rolls by the Ogre plus the GEVs were mostly within range on the first turn and died/disabled quickly. Also, using craters and disabled units (remember, no stacking!), I was able to substantially decrease how many units could get at me.

I made a run at the second set of LADs before I lost M2 and before too many of my disables recovered, and got them still at M2. Again, hot dice for the Ogre and cold for the PE units. Then it was mainly clean up. Dropped to M1 while killing the third set of LADs, and barely killed the last as they were chipping away at my remaining treads.

A combination of having dice that liked the Ogre and using the disabled units as shields really helped. But you have to keep moving because M1 with the LADs is tough!

D.

tomc · 09-21-2016, 06:46 PM

I had a similar game, but lost because of one GEV that wouldn't die.

The Ogre destroyed or disabled 9 units on the first turn, using all the guns, ramming, and both missiles. The armor units went for the MBs at 1:1, with left over firepower directed at treads. The ogre was down to M2 before reaching the first set of LADs, so the armor kept pounding treads leaving the SBs alone. (probably a mistake to ignore the SBs)

After limping at M1 to the last set of LADs, the Ogre destroyed them with all 6 SBs. Then the Lone GEV leisurely picked off the remaining 9 treads.

-----

The other game was a vanilla 15 armor, 2 LADs destroyed, and an immobile Ogre with 12 useless APs. :/

Tim Kauffman · 09-22-2016, 06:21 PM

What an incredibly cool Scenario. Minimalistic to an extreme, but at the same time bursting at the seams, a Paradox that functions with a vengeance.

I found myself reflecting on the OGRE itself and what it was being subjected to here in this simulation...torturous, cold, calculated, premeditated AI control forces are being used here. It's kind of disturbing even though you know the victim is not human, but a machine without feelings being subjected to these machinations. You notice the human malevolence behind it.

I tried a different approach on my playthrough from others posted and focused entirely on slowing the OGRE down as the mission priority to see how that may play out and to what conclusion. Thus, all units were making 1:1 attacks at the OGRE every time they had a shot. The reasoning seemed sound enough, an immobile OGRE is a dead OGRE as long as at least one enemy unit like a GEV or LAD is within attack range long enough to completely destroy it.

I have to say, initially when I saw the Scenario, I thought it would be boring in the sense that it would not be much fun because it was so minimalistic and confined and maybe I'm too old now and have played too many OGRE games and am just a jaded OGRE fan...how absolutely wrong I was. :)

Thank You SJGs again, for another most excellent Scenario. If this is any indication of whats in OGREs future, we OGRE geeks are in very good hands.

DOG PILE...Official OGRE Scenario Solo Playthrough...September 21 2016
https://youtu.be/N6bUtDOubRE
A picture was taken at each instance when a unit was damaged or destroyed and made into a slid show...with a really cool song that suits the Scenario Imho.
8:15 video length. @ 4:50 there is a full After Action Report detailing weapons fire, damage and OGRE movement reduction.
Disclaimer: Please forgive any typos or errors, to do so is only human. :)

-OR- skip the video and here is the After Action Report:

The ring closest to the OGRE is all Heavy Tanks. Since slowing the OGRE was priority, having these closest, made the OGRE loose the most tread units the fastest at a rate of 2 lost per ram of Heavy Tank.

TURN 1

COMBINE

OGRE Mark5 rams Heavy Tank=Xed=2 tread units lost=58 tread units left.
Rams Missile Tank=DISABLED=1tread unit lost=57 tread units.
Rams Missile Tank=DISABLED=1 tread unit lost=56 tread units.
Fires OGRE Missile at Missile Tank=Xed.
Fires OGRE Missile at Missile Tank=DISABLED.
Fires Secondary Battery at Heavy Tank=DISABLED.
Fires Secondary Battery at Heavy Tank=NE.
Fires Secondary Battery at same target again=Xed.
Fires Secondary Battery at GEV=NE.
Fires Secondary Battery at same target again=Xed.
Fires Secondary Battery at DISABLED Missile Tank=DISABLED=Xed.
Fires Main Battery at Heavy Tank=DISABLED.
Fires Main Battery at Heavy Tank=NE.

PANEUROPE

Missile Tank fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=3 tread units lost=53 tread units left.
Missile Tank fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=3 tread units lost=50 tread units left.
LAD fires at OGRE=Xed=2 tread units lost=48 tread units left.
LAD fires at OGRE tread units=NE.
LAD fires at OGRE tread units=DISABLED=NE.
LAD fires at OGRE=Xed=2 tread units lost=46 tread units left.
Heavy Tank fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=4 tread units lost=42 tread units left.
Heavy Tank fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=4 tread units lost=38 tread units
left=OGRE drops to Move 2.
GEV fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=2 tread units lost=36 tread units left.
GEV fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=2 tread units lost=34 tread units left.
GEV fires at OGRE tread units=DISABLED=NE.
GEV fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=2 tread units lost=32 tread units left.
GEV fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=2 tread units lost=30 tread units left.

TURN 2

COMBINE

OGRE rams DISABLED Missile Tank=Automatic Xed.
OGRE rams DISABLED Missile Tank=Automatic Xed.
OGRE fires Secondary Battery at DISABLED Heavy Tank=Xed.
OGRE fires Secondary Battery at DISABLED Heavy Tank=NE.
OGRE fires at the same target again with Secondary Battery=DISABLED=Xed.
OGRE fires Secondary Battery at Heavy Tank=NE.
OGRE fires at same target again with Secondary Battery=DISABLE.
OGRE fires Secondary Battery at Heavy Tank=Xed.
OGRE fires Main Battery at Missile Tank=Xed.
OGRE fires Main Battery at Missile Tank=Xed.

PANEUROPE

GEV fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=2 tread units lost=28 tread units left.
GEV fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=2 tread units lost=26 tread units left.
GEV fires at OGRE tread units=NE.
GEV fires at OGRE tread units=NE.
GEV fires at OGRE tread units=DISABLED=NE.

LAD fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=2 tread units lost=24 tread units left.
LAD fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=2 tread units lost=22 tread units left.
LAD fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=2 tread units lost=20 tread units left.
LAD fires at OGRE tread units=DISABLED=NE.

TURN 3

COMBINE

OGRE fires Secondary Battery at GEV=Xed.
OGRE fires Secondary Battery at GEV=DISABLED.
OGRE fires Secondary Battery again at GEV=Xed.
OGRE fires Secondary Battery at GEV=Xed.
OGRE fires Secondary Battery at DISABLED Heavy Tank=DISABLED=Xed.
OGRE fires Main Battery at GEV=Xed.
OGRE fires Main Battery at GEV=Xed.

PANEUROPE

GEV fires at OGRE tread units=NE.
GEV fires at OGRE tread units=NE.

LAD fires on OGRE tread units=DISABLED=NE.
LAD fires on OGRE tread units=NE.
LAD fires on OGRE tread units=NE.
LAD fires on OGRE tread units=NE.

TURN 4

COMBINE

OGRE moves 1.

PANEUROPE

GEV fires at OGRE tread units=NE.
GEV fires at OGRE tread units=DISABLED=NE.

LAD fires at OGRE tread units=NE.
GEV fires at OGRE tread units=2 tread units lost= 18 tread units left.
LAD fires at OGRE tread units=NE.
GEV fires at OGRE tread units=NE.

TURN 5

COMBINE

OGRE moves 1.

PANEUROPE

GEV fires at OGRE tread units=DISABLED=NE.
GEV fires at OGRE tread units=Xed= 16 tread units left.
LAD fires at OGRE tread units=2 tread units lost= 14 tread units left.
LAD fires at OGRE tread units=NE.

TURN 6

COMBINE

OGRE moves 1.

OGRE fires main Battery at LAD=Xed.
OGRE fires main Battery at LAD=Xed.

Paneurope has 2 GEVs left able to hit and run the OGRE eventually to a Move 0
and 6 LADs.

The OGRE concedes the battle...

Tim Kauffman · 09-22-2016, 07:24 PM

...I think this Scenario especially would be great fun for testing out what is discussed here: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=131109

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macunaima

Real simple:

A unit that doesn't move or fire in its turn gets a "reaction" marker placed next to it. It can fire in the enemy's turn, after his movement and before his fire.

Everything but lasers. Ogres need to not move or fire at all in order to get a reaction marker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macunaima

The first rule for any changes here is KISS. So I don`t want to have to track individual ogre weapons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macunaima

Secondly, in game mechanics terms, my reaction fire rule is designed to let units with longer range occupy nice defensive terrain and let the battle come to them. Ogres moving forward and reserving fire doesn't fit in with that philosophy.

This is even cooler. OGREs would only begin to consider using this after they begin loosing their tread units and it is bad enough their movement is reduced. The more reduced their movement, the more this becomes a viable option for them. Very OGRE AI-like Imho.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macunaima

Lasers are designed to shoot down missiles. If they aren't doing that, they can fire in their turn. They are not designed to take snap shots. That's the rationale.

In games mechanics terms, it makes them too powerful, imho, given their infinite range.

"Reaction Action"/ "Opportunity Fire"/"Reaction Attack"/"Reaction Fire"...whatever you want to call it, seems like it may compliment the game.

I am thinking of this because of course, it may be well enough to have a GEV or so be the survivors of the Paneuro side and at end game when the OGREs movement is reduced they exploit this and it becomes in effect an auto-win for them because the OGRE is unable to fire back before the GEVs swoop back out of range, maneuvering for the next attacks that cannot be responded to by the OGRE. Like I said, that's fine, but it would be really cool and fun if the OGRE could choose to not move and be able to make attacks on these GEVs before they attack.
I really wanted to continue my playthrough more, but as is, the GEVs would have harried the OGRE eventually to death. I just wanted the battle to be on that edge a little longer of not knowing who will be victorious.

Tim Kauffman · 09-22-2016, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomc

The other game was a vanilla 15 armor, 2 LADs destroyed, and an immobile Ogre with 12 useless APs. :/

FanMade suggestion: what if OGRE AP Guns could make half-strength/half-ranged attacks on targets at a maximum attack strength no more than half of it's total AP Guns? Thus, an OGRE Mark5 with 12 AP Guns would have a maximum of 6 attack strength points to make attacks with. To make a attack strength 1 attack, it would have to focus fire 2 AP Guns, to make a attack strength 2 attack, it would have to focus fire 4 AP Guns, to make a attack strength 3 attack, it would have to focus fire 6 AP Guns. The best attack possible, a strength 4 attack would only be possible from a OGRE Mark6 that has 16 AP Guns.

The range for this attack is 1 instead of 2.

Such attacks can only DISABLE a target, thus, Xs are treated as Ds, Ds are treated as Ds, and NEs are treated as NEs.

So, this is all useless against another OGRE, and only has a marginal effect on non-OGRE units. It's better than nothing and at least you won't think to yourself, as I often have, like you just mentioned...man, all those useless AP Guns...

I also think it may have merit to allow GEV units to be attacked by AP Guns as per the official rules as if they were Infantry, say, at a range of 1 instead of 2 (this represents a concentrated firepower at much closer range) with the change that such attacks can only ever DISABLE, like mentioned above.

ghostofjfd · 09-22-2016, 08:57 PM

first solo run-through with the Mk VI (variant 5.1)

Overall: Ogre loss in 20 turns, with survivors = 4x LAD, 1x GEV, 1x MSL.

The Ogre went for the NW corner, but wasn't shy about coming back toward the center for kills, especially rams. Rationale: The Mk VI's advantages over the Mk V are one more MB and a whopping 12 tread units. Hypothesis: If you're not ramming, you're doing it wrong. Assumption: The Ogre starts with 2 external missiles, but no internal missiles or missile racks.

Turn by turn kills (& damage suffered, not counting treads)

1: 1x MSL, 2x HVY, 3x GEV (2x MB, 2x 2B, fired 2 missiles, remaining firepower ~= Mk III)
2: 2x MSL, 1x HVY, 1x GEV (1x MB, 1x 2B)
3: 2x HVY, 2x INF
4: 2x LAD, 4x INF to clear the NW corner
5: 1x GEV (1x 2B)
6: 1x MSL, 3x INF (1x 2B)
7: 1x INF (1x 2B, nothing left but treads and AP)
8: no destruction
9: 6x INF (2x AP)
10: 3x INF
11: 1x HVY, 2x INF
12: 2x INF (treads shot down to M1)
13: no destruction
14: no destruction
15: 1x LAD
16: 1x LAD to clear the SW corner
17 to 20: The Ogre crawls eastward while a GEV and a MSL continue to plink with impunity. It spends one turn within range of the southeast LADs before losing its last tread.

Except for the first corner attacked, the INF decided to abandon their LADs and swarm the Ogre, getting in some good licks (more or less their expected value of hits). The LADs rolled poorly in this game. My strategy for next time will be for the Ogre to stay in a cleared corner so that the armor will have to crowd together to come after it. If the armor tries to stand off, crawl the edges to kill LADs and limit the armor to 180 degrees of attack arc.

ghostofjfd · 09-23-2016, 07:19 AM

Another Mk VI Dogpile, variant 5.1: outcome = theoretical Ogre loss some time on or after turn 40. On turn 23, when I stopped, the situation was one GEV facing a Mk VI with 2x 2B, 16x AP, and 34x treads (M2) still functional. That means that, barring some movement error by the GEV, the Ogre could never put guns on the GEV, which could then plink the Ogre to death at an average rate of 2/3rds of a tread per turn. In live play, I'd concede as the Ogre for the sake of starting a fresh game.

Details in PE losses (Ogre losses) by turn:

1: 5 armor killed, 5 armor disabled (fired both missiles, lost 2x MB)
2: 4 armor killed, (lost 1x MB, 1x 2B)
3: 2 armor (northwest LADs) and 5 INF killed (lost 1x 2B)
4: 4 armor killed, (lost 1x 2B)
5: 1 armor killed, 1 armor disabled, 4 INF killed (no damage)

Turns 6 to 23 saw a diminishing number of armor chasing the Ogre as it moved counterclockwise around the perimeter of the map, clearing the remaining three corners. So it was a close game, but not all that exciting after the first half dozen turns. Then again, is was solo play, so there were no surprises other than the Ogre shifting its axis from northeast to northwest when I noticed an opportunity to positionally dislocate some units and make a couple good rams. The run for the corner strategy worked well, though early kills among the conventional forces meant that crowding was not much of a problem after turn 3. The infantry swarmed, which didn't seem unreasonable even though a Mk VI eats INF like popcorn.

Misplaced Buckeye · 09-23-2016, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghostofjfd

Another Mk VI Dogpile, variant 5.1: outcome = theoretical Ogre loss some time on or after turn 40. On turn 23, when I stopped, the situation was one GEV facing a Mk VI with 2x 2B, 16x AP, and 34x treads (M2) still functional. That means that, barring some movement error by the GEV, the Ogre could never put guns on the GEV, which could then plink the Ogre to death at an average rate of 2/3rds of a tread per turn. In live play, I'd concede as the Ogre for the sake of starting a fresh game.

Details in PE losses (Ogre losses) by turn:

1: 5 armor killed, 5 armor disabled (fired both missiles, lost 2x MB)
2: 4 armor killed, (lost 1x MB, 1x 2B)
3: 2 armor (northwest LADs) and 5 INF killed (lost 1x 2B)
4: 4 armor killed, (lost 1x 2B)
5: 1 armor killed, 1 armor disabled, 4 INF killed (no damage)

Turns 6 to 23 saw a diminishing number of armor chasing the Ogre as it moved counterclockwise around the perimeter of the map, clearing the remaining three corners. So it was a close game, but not all that exciting after the first half dozen turns. Then again, is was solo play, so there were no surprises other than the Ogre shifting its axis from northeast to northwest when I noticed an opportunity to positionally dislocate some units and make a couple good rams. The run for the corner strategy worked well, though early kills among the conventional forces meant that crowding was not much of a problem after turn 3. The infantry swarmed, which didn't seem unreasonable even though a Mk VI eats INF like popcorn.

As stated above, the swooping in and out without sustaining any damage is really unreal. This isn't the Flash! If an ogre weapon isn't used in the attack phase prior to enemy movement some type of reactionary fire should be incorporated into the rules. Reduced power for ill directed fire or something similar would make sense

HeatDeath · 09-23-2016, 11:12 PM

It's precisely this play dynamic, an artifact of the turn sequence and hex grid, that makes making a really accurate Ogre RTS basically impossible.

GEVs with 4-3 movement are invulnerable to any unit with a strike range (movement plus weapon range) of 4 or less. Maneuvered correctly, they can whip in and out of range and strike with impunity, forever.

It's actually a really elegant way to create, on a hex grid, the affective feeling of zippy little aircraft-like units whipping around big lumbering battleship-like units, but it turns out to be very difficult to describe the plausible real-world behavior that this play dynamic would simulate.

09-20-2016, 10:29 PM	#11
ghostofjfd Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Atlanta, GA	Re: New Scenario: Dogpile Question about variant 5.1: Is the idea that the Mk VI has two external missiles and none in the missile racks?

09-21-2016, 04:33 PM	#12
wolf90 Join Date: Jun 2010	Re: New Scenario: Dogpile This is all incredibly helpful! *Please* keep it coming. On the (sole) time I beat the scenario, I initially ran towards one corner and took out the LADs, giving me a "safe zone" out of the other LADs' umbrellas. My initial turns were fairly successful with good rolls by the Ogre plus the GEVs were mostly within range on the first turn and died/disabled quickly. Also, using craters and disabled units (remember, no stacking!), I was able to substantially decrease how many units could get at me. I made a run at the second set of LADs before I lost M2 and before too many of my disables recovered, and got them still at M2. Again, hot dice for the Ogre and cold for the PE units. Then it was mainly clean up. Dropped to M1 while killing the third set of LADs, and barely killed the last as they were chipping away at my remaining treads. A combination of having dice that liked the Ogre and using the disabled units as shields really helped. But you have to keep moving because M1 with the LADs is tough! D. __________________ Proud sponsor of Ogre KS $4.5k Sheet #3 - Bringing the Vatican Guard, a Tiger-striped mercenary unit, and of course pink GEVs, to a game near you! Orders may be placed here.

09-21-2016, 06:46 PM	#13
tomc Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Carrboro, NC	Re: New Scenario: Dogpile I had a similar game, but lost because of one GEV that wouldn't die. The Ogre destroyed or disabled 9 units on the first turn, using all the guns, ramming, and both missiles. The armor units went for the MBs at 1:1, with left over firepower directed at treads. The ogre was down to M2 before reaching the first set of LADs, so the armor kept pounding treads leaving the SBs alone. (probably a mistake to ignore the SBs) After limping at M1 to the last set of LADs, the Ogre destroyed them with all 6 SBs. Then the Lone GEV leisurely picked off the remaining 9 treads. ----- The other game was a vanilla 15 armor, 2 LADs destroyed, and an immobile Ogre with 12 useless APs. :/ __________________ OgreMap2 Freedom of Speech is not Freedom of Podium

09-22-2016, 06:21 PM	#14
Tim Kauffman Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Pennsylvania	Re: New Scenario: Dogpile What an incredibly cool Scenario. Minimalistic to an extreme, but at the same time bursting at the seams, a Paradox that functions with a vengeance. I found myself reflecting on the OGRE itself and what it was being subjected to here in this simulation...torturous, cold, calculated, premeditated AI control forces are being used here. It's kind of disturbing even though you know the victim is not human, but a machine without feelings being subjected to these machinations. You notice the human malevolence behind it. I tried a different approach on my playthrough from others posted and focused entirely on slowing the OGRE down as the mission priority to see how that may play out and to what conclusion. Thus, all units were making 1:1 attacks at the OGRE every time they had a shot. The reasoning seemed sound enough, an immobile OGRE is a dead OGRE as long as at least one enemy unit like a GEV or LAD is within attack range long enough to completely destroy it. I have to say, initially when I saw the Scenario, I thought it would be boring in the sense that it would not be much fun because it was so minimalistic and confined and maybe I'm too old now and have played too many OGRE games and am just a jaded OGRE fan...how absolutely wrong I was. :) Thank You SJGs again, for another most excellent Scenario. If this is any indication of whats in OGREs future, we OGRE geeks are in very good hands. DOG PILE...Official OGRE Scenario Solo Playthrough...September 21 2016 https://youtu.be/N6bUtDOubRE A picture was taken at each instance when a unit was damaged or destroyed and made into a slid show...with a really cool song that suits the Scenario Imho. 8:15 video length. @ 4:50 there is a full After Action Report detailing weapons fire, damage and OGRE movement reduction. Disclaimer: Please forgive any typos or errors, to do so is only human. :) -OR- skip the video and here is the After Action Report: The ring closest to the OGRE is all Heavy Tanks. Since slowing the OGRE was priority, having these closest, made the OGRE loose the most tread units the fastest at a rate of 2 lost per ram of Heavy Tank. TURN 1 COMBINE OGRE Mark5 rams Heavy Tank=Xed=2 tread units lost=58 tread units left. Rams Missile Tank=DISABLED=1tread unit lost=57 tread units. Rams Missile Tank=DISABLED=1 tread unit lost=56 tread units. Fires OGRE Missile at Missile Tank=Xed. Fires OGRE Missile at Missile Tank=DISABLED. Fires Secondary Battery at Heavy Tank=DISABLED. Fires Secondary Battery at Heavy Tank=NE. Fires Secondary Battery at same target again=Xed. Fires Secondary Battery at GEV=NE. Fires Secondary Battery at same target again=Xed. Fires Secondary Battery at DISABLED Missile Tank=DISABLED=Xed. Fires Main Battery at Heavy Tank=DISABLED. Fires Main Battery at Heavy Tank=NE. PANEUROPE Missile Tank fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=3 tread units lost=53 tread units left. Missile Tank fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=3 tread units lost=50 tread units left. LAD fires at OGRE=Xed=2 tread units lost=48 tread units left. LAD fires at OGRE tread units=NE. LAD fires at OGRE tread units=DISABLED=NE. LAD fires at OGRE=Xed=2 tread units lost=46 tread units left. Heavy Tank fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=4 tread units lost=42 tread units left. Heavy Tank fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=4 tread units lost=38 tread units left=OGRE drops to Move 2. GEV fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=2 tread units lost=36 tread units left. GEV fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=2 tread units lost=34 tread units left. GEV fires at OGRE tread units=DISABLED=NE. GEV fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=2 tread units lost=32 tread units left. GEV fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=2 tread units lost=30 tread units left. TURN 2 COMBINE OGRE rams DISABLED Missile Tank=Automatic Xed. OGRE rams DISABLED Missile Tank=Automatic Xed. OGRE fires Secondary Battery at DISABLED Heavy Tank=Xed. OGRE fires Secondary Battery at DISABLED Heavy Tank=NE. OGRE fires at the same target again with Secondary Battery=DISABLED=Xed. OGRE fires Secondary Battery at Heavy Tank=NE. OGRE fires at same target again with Secondary Battery=DISABLE. OGRE fires Secondary Battery at Heavy Tank=Xed. OGRE fires Main Battery at Missile Tank=Xed. OGRE fires Main Battery at Missile Tank=Xed. PANEUROPE GEV fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=2 tread units lost=28 tread units left. GEV fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=2 tread units lost=26 tread units left. GEV fires at OGRE tread units=NE. GEV fires at OGRE tread units=NE. GEV fires at OGRE tread units=DISABLED=NE. LAD fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=2 tread units lost=24 tread units left. LAD fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=2 tread units lost=22 tread units left. LAD fires at OGRE tread units=Xed=2 tread units lost=20 tread units left. LAD fires at OGRE tread units=DISABLED=NE. TURN 3 COMBINE OGRE fires Secondary Battery at GEV=Xed. OGRE fires Secondary Battery at GEV=DISABLED. OGRE fires Secondary Battery again at GEV=Xed. OGRE fires Secondary Battery at GEV=Xed. OGRE fires Secondary Battery at DISABLED Heavy Tank=DISABLED=Xed. OGRE fires Main Battery at GEV=Xed. OGRE fires Main Battery at GEV=Xed. PANEUROPE GEV fires at OGRE tread units=NE. GEV fires at OGRE tread units=NE. LAD fires on OGRE tread units=DISABLED=NE. LAD fires on OGRE tread units=NE. LAD fires on OGRE tread units=NE. LAD fires on OGRE tread units=NE. TURN 4 COMBINE OGRE moves 1. PANEUROPE GEV fires at OGRE tread units=NE. GEV fires at OGRE tread units=DISABLED=NE. LAD fires at OGRE tread units=NE. GEV fires at OGRE tread units=2 tread units lost= 18 tread units left. LAD fires at OGRE tread units=NE. GEV fires at OGRE tread units=NE. TURN 5 COMBINE OGRE moves 1. PANEUROPE GEV fires at OGRE tread units=DISABLED=NE. GEV fires at OGRE tread units=Xed= 16 tread units left. LAD fires at OGRE tread units=2 tread units lost= 14 tread units left. LAD fires at OGRE tread units=NE. TURN 6 COMBINE OGRE moves 1. OGRE fires main Battery at LAD=Xed. OGRE fires main Battery at LAD=Xed. Paneurope has 2 GEVs left able to hit and run the OGRE eventually to a Move 0 and 6 LADs. The OGRE concedes the battle... __________________ "So I stood my ground...my only hope to die as I had always lived-fighting" John Carter of Mars Last edited by Tim Kauffman; 09-28-2016 at 06:00 PM.

09-22-2016, 08:57 PM	#17
ghostofjfd Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Atlanta, GA	Re: New Scenario: Dogpile first solo run-through with the Mk VI (variant 5.1) Overall: Ogre loss in 20 turns, with survivors = 4x LAD, 1x GEV, 1x MSL. The Ogre went for the NW corner, but wasn't shy about coming back toward the center for kills, especially rams. Rationale: The Mk VI's advantages over the Mk V are one more MB and a whopping 12 tread units. Hypothesis: If you're not ramming, you're doing it wrong. Assumption: The Ogre starts with 2 external missiles, but no internal missiles or missile racks. Turn by turn kills (& damage suffered, not counting treads) 1: 1x MSL, 2x HVY, 3x GEV (2x MB, 2x 2B, fired 2 missiles, remaining firepower ~= Mk III) 2: 2x MSL, 1x HVY, 1x GEV (1x MB, 1x 2B) 3: 2x HVY, 2x INF 4: 2x LAD, 4x INF to clear the NW corner 5: 1x GEV (1x 2B) 6: 1x MSL, 3x INF (1x 2B) 7: 1x INF (1x 2B, nothing left but treads and AP) 8: no destruction 9: 6x INF (2x AP) 10: 3x INF 11: 1x HVY, 2x INF 12: 2x INF (treads shot down to M1) 13: no destruction 14: no destruction 15: 1x LAD 16: 1x LAD to clear the SW corner 17 to 20: The Ogre crawls eastward while a GEV and a MSL continue to plink with impunity. It spends one turn within range of the southeast LADs before losing its last tread. Except for the first corner attacked, the INF decided to abandon their LADs and swarm the Ogre, getting in some good licks (more or less their expected value of hits). The LADs rolled poorly in this game. My strategy for next time will be for the Ogre to stay in a cleared corner so that the armor will have to crowd together to come after it. If the armor tries to stand off, crawl the edges to kill LADs and limit the armor to 180 degrees of attack arc. Last edited by ghostofjfd; 09-22-2016 at 09:50 PM.

09-23-2016, 07:19 AM	#18
ghostofjfd Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Atlanta, GA	Re: New Scenario: Dogpile Another Mk VI Dogpile, variant 5.1: outcome = theoretical Ogre loss some time on or after turn 40. On turn 23, when I stopped, the situation was one GEV facing a Mk VI with 2x 2B, 16x AP, and 34x treads (M2) still functional. That means that, barring some movement error by the GEV, the Ogre could never put guns on the GEV, which could then plink the Ogre to death at an average rate of 2/3rds of a tread per turn. In live play, I'd concede as the Ogre for the sake of starting a fresh game. Details in PE losses (Ogre losses) by turn: 1: 5 armor killed, 5 armor disabled (fired both missiles, lost 2x MB) 2: 4 armor killed, (lost 1x MB, 1x 2B) 3: 2 armor (northwest LADs) and 5 INF killed (lost 1x 2B) 4: 4 armor killed, (lost 1x 2B) 5: 1 armor killed, 1 armor disabled, 4 INF killed (no damage) Turns 6 to 23 saw a diminishing number of armor chasing the Ogre as it moved counterclockwise around the perimeter of the map, clearing the remaining three corners. So it was a close game, but not all that exciting after the first half dozen turns. Then again, is was solo play, so there were no surprises other than the Ogre shifting its axis from northeast to northwest when I noticed an opportunity to positionally dislocate some units and make a couple good rams. The run for the corner strategy worked well, though early kills among the conventional forces meant that crowding was not much of a problem after turn 3. The infantry swarmed, which didn't seem unreasonable even though a Mk VI eats INF like popcorn. Last edited by ghostofjfd; 09-23-2016 at 07:27 AM.

09-23-2016, 11:12 PM	#20
HeatDeath Join Date: May 2012	Re: New Scenario: Dogpile It's precisely this play dynamic, an artifact of the turn sequence and hex grid, that makes making a really accurate Ogre RTS basically impossible. GEVs with 4-3 movement are invulnerable to any unit with a strike range (movement plus weapon range) of 4 or less. Maneuvered correctly, they can whip in and out of range and strike with impunity, forever. It's actually a really elegant way to create, on a hex grid, the affective feeling of zippy little aircraft-like units whipping around big lumbering battleship-like units, but it turns out to be very difficult to describe the plausible real-world behavior that this play dynamic would simulate.