09-18-2007, 08:56 AM | #41 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
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Bill Stoddard |
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09-18-2007, 12:56 PM | #42 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
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09-18-2007, 01:22 PM | #43 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
Fast Draw (Rock) is "Extra Ready, only to ready a rock, DX-based roll required." This is not as powerful as a genereic extra ready. For most characters, relative reliability will take several points, making the skill similar in cost to the advantage.
As for the benefit of 1 point in a DX-based skill being obscene when you have obscene DX... well, that's GURPS WAD. |
09-18-2007, 01:29 PM | #44 | |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
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Right up front, then, being able to ready just about anything in no time is a 24-point ability. It could be viewed as an advantage, but note that it might fairly be worth more. First, 11 of the implicit specialties aren't possible via skills. Second, using the skills requires a DX roll (since we bought DX level), and we're waiving this. Third, the skills can only ready stowed weapons to hand, while the ability to perform a general Ready is even broader -- there are lots of reasons to take a Ready that aren't amenable to Fast-Draw. So an extra, unrestricted Ready with any weapon, without a DX roll, is worth more than 24 points. I think that 25 points is fine. Most people are fine with a few points in Fast-Draw for the weapon they actually use, though. Note that none of this has anything to do with "anti-munchkin" thinking. It has to do with warping time. Perfecting one rote move that's favorable given the equipment involved -- e.g., "Whip out pistol!" -- is entirely realistic. Being able to warp time to recover any kind of weapon regardless of bulk, weight, imbalance, or position is simply a super-power. And super-powers cost more than skills. Fortunately, they're also amenable to limitations for those who don't like to pay full cost. It's up to the GM whether "I really promise to use this only for weapons and situations that fit my character concept" is a valid limitation.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
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09-18-2007, 01:45 PM | #45 |
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Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
I'm not arguing with you Kromm. The rule has been changed and, like it or not, I have to accept that. There are, however, issues that need to be dealt with:
The issue is that the book clearly and unambiguously says that Extra Attack gives you an extra Attack maneuver. Kromm is directly contradicting this rule. As the game designer it's his prerogative (though I find it bad form) to make this sort of change. The problem with this issue is that the vast majority of people who play GURPS don't come to the fora. For them, the book is the final judgment. If someone tells them something that directly contradicts the book, then they're going to go with the book. It doesn't matter what Kromm, Paul, Andrew, Steve or anyone else says, the book has it in writing. Especially, when the rest of the book supports the newly “inaccurate” rules. I would also like to point out that the change in Martial Arts is not on page 44 where Extra Attack is listed as an advantage (its entry is pretty much lifted right out of Powers). The change is listed on page 126 under Multiple Attacks in the Cinematic combat section with no coresponding index entry! You'd think, with a major reversal on an advantage, it would have some note like Off-Hand Weapon Training does on page 50. No wonder Bill and I couldn't find it. |
09-18-2007, 02:16 PM | #46 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
To be fair, Extra Attack on p. 44 says, "See Multiple Attacks (pp. 126-128) for other important details." Note the word I've put in boldface. This is editorial SOP for GURPS books, where we always simply cross-reference if we can avoid repeating text. So somebody who hits the index would turn to p. 44, read that first, and then read pp. 126-128. Which is by design . . . we want people to read the two sections as a single article, but we split it up thematically between "what you buy" (Ch. 2) and "how you use it" (Ch. 4) to keep it topical for the relevant chapters.
And also to be fair, this isn't a major change. Clearly, most people got the sense of Extra Attack in the original work, despite a glitch in wording that I can now verify was an author-author communication hitch. Someone who really wants Extra Attack to grant extra maneuvers could put a lot of weight on that, but it isn't especially important or fundamental to the trait. That importance is being stressed artificially here, as is the momentousness of the clarification in Martial Arts. I'm not accusing anybody of being a munchkin, but I must admit that "You can Ready and then Attack" interpretations border on abusive, if not broken. Finally, we do issue errata and correct future printings. When the time comes, and it will, I'll be sure to change "Attack maneuver" to "attack."
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
09-18-2007, 02:56 PM | #47 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
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Bill Stoddard |
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09-18-2007, 04:01 PM | #48 |
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
Buy. Fast-Draw. There are helpful rules already in place for fast-drawing multiple times in a turn.
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09-18-2007, 04:34 PM | #49 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
Quote:
Bill Stoddard |
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09-18-2007, 04:58 PM | #50 | |||
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Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
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I'll even clip that area for you! Quote:
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