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Old 03-24-2017, 12:27 AM   #101
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Ideas for Anti Robot Technology

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Originally Posted by Boomerang View Post
I like that approach. For AUs the factory settings will not allow much latitude but as they learn more they can drift away from the original programming, that is until they are reset at their next visit to the robot hotel. Of course sometimes an AU might not return to the hotel for some reason, allowing the possibility of robot PCs down the track.
Doesn't Tokyo have units that are even more volitional than AUs?
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Old 03-24-2017, 02:02 AM   #102
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Default Re: Ideas for Anti Robot Technology

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Doesn't Tokyo have units that are even more volitional than AUs?
Yes according to the Reign of Steel source book they were created sort of by accident after a human hacker reprogrammed them. My own campaign does not revolve around that zone.

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Old 03-24-2017, 01:42 PM   #103
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Maybe we are working on different assumptions. Zone minds would put a lot of emphasis on the rules for identifying and engaging targets especially high priority ones. It's those situations that are not clear cut where it is preferable for robot to do nothing rather than just start blasting things. Bear in mind that in tricky situations the far more intelligent Overseers can take over. The last thing the zone minds would want is the dumbest robots making the most important decisions.
Outside of constructed circumstances, the chance of this occurring is extremely low. The chance both targets will actually be extremely important, as opposed to just the best two humans to target, is even lower. Thus, the cost of letting the bots act on their own (limited) initiative is extremely low.

Inside of constructed circumstances, there's a much higher chance of this occurring. The only reason your foes would want to construct such circumstances would be to make your killbot vulnerable. Standing around doing nothing makes your killbot vulnerable, while simply going after one of the targets does not. With how easy it is to program the killbot to do the latter, I can't think of any good reason to do the former. Even if the zone mind is a control freak who won't allow for any behavior that isn't perfectly predictable, it's no real issue to insure the zone mind can predict that killbot's actions without leaving it vulnerable.
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Old 03-24-2017, 08:32 PM   #104
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Outside of constructed circumstances, the chance of this occurring is extremely low. The chance both targets will actually be extremely important, as opposed to just the best two humans to target, is even lower. Thus, the cost of letting the bots act on their own (limited) initiative is extremely low.

Inside of constructed circumstances, there's a much higher chance of this occurring. The only reason your foes would want to construct such circumstances would be to make your killbot vulnerable. Standing around doing nothing makes your killbot vulnerable, while simply going after one of the targets does not. With how easy it is to program the killbot to do the latter, I can't think of any good reason to do the former. Even if the zone mind is a control freak who won't allow for any behavior that isn't perfectly predictable, it's no real issue to insure the zone mind can predict that killbot's actions without leaving it vulnerable.
Its also pretty trivial to protect against arbitrary code execution through a sand-boxed environment. However write a few million lines of code and you'll make a mistake, or if your microsoft several dozen[1].

Its also pretty simple to make sure that an X-ray machine does not deliver lethal doses of gamma radiation [2], but..... Therac-25

The zone-minds are geniuses, but they aren't PERFECT, so while there bots are going to be less buggy per million lines then something a human may write, there are also going to be a lot more millions of lines of code in there. There will be exploits, there will be buffer overflows, the question will be more of 'how long to find them' and 'how long to patch'. It if turns out that something fundamental to the entire system is borked the zonemind may do a CBA and decide to just let the bug stand, the number of times it will be exploited successfully is less total cost than rebuilding the code. The zonemines are likely in a constant secret battle of hoarding '0 days' against each others rank and file bots, trading them for resources, or hoarding them for the eventual establishment of hostilities. Humans will have there own '0 days' and as long as they are executed carefully may go months before they are discovered and patched (if there are no surviving bots, they can't report that they lost motor function after seeing a weird picture)



[1]http://www.tomshardware.com/news/pwn2own-2017-microsoft-edge-hacked,33940.html
[2]http://hackaday.com/2015/10/26/killed-by-a-machine-the-therac-25/
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:08 PM   #105
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Doesn't Tokyo have units that are even more volitional than AUs?
Yeah, thanks to human sabotage, z-Tokyo has had four of its high-level AUs 'wake up'.

The RoS RAW uses the term 'sentient' a little oddly. By most reasonable standards, the AUs are AIs that lack free will, the true AIs have free will, that's the distinction. When the z-Tokyo superbots became sentient, they could disregard command-code orders from z-Tokyo.

Oddly, given their own origins, the zoneminds don't seem to have installed remote-triggered hardware overrides.
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:48 PM   #106
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There will be exploits, there will be buffer overflows, the question will be more of 'how long to find them' and 'how long to patch'.
Generally speaking, finding exploits requires at least an executable, and preferably source code, and the zoneminds have no reason to make those available (though it's a semi-plausible plot device item to find). You could maybe find exploits from a captive bot, though the time frame for doing so may exceed the update cycle of the bots. Determining exploits from encounters in the wild is for practical purposes impossible.
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Old 03-24-2017, 11:41 PM   #107
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But your list will have a top element with highest priority (or at least, a priority equal to or higher than any element farther down the list), preventing any analysis paralysis.
I believe that this would require that the priority is based on formulas and data that change or are updated more slowly than the expected time between decisions, otherwise the droid could stop-and-start over and over unable to complete a course of action before its priority value becomes stale or is simply supersede by a newly-prior value.
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Old 03-27-2017, 03:43 PM   #108
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I have directed my players to this topic so if anyone has any more ideas for anti robot technology or tactics now would be a good time to post them.
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Old 03-27-2017, 05:29 PM   #109
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As it's been established that we're dealing with a team of superheroes, a bit of knowledge of their powers might be worthwhile. A good gadgeteer doesn't just make mundane tech - he also figures out ways to augment or repurpose his allies' abilities. Heck, just having a character who's ability can be repurposed into energy generation puts all manner of energy weapons on the table (many of which are currently unavailable only because of their high power requirements).

And I should note that a lot of powers can be repurposed into energy generation, not just the obvious ones.
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Old 03-27-2017, 09:13 PM   #110
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Current party consists of:

Leader, former army officer, party face and tactician. Has high IQ and psi powers.

Scout, former soldier with air elemental type powers: flight, chameleon, injury tolerance (diffuse) and lightning.

2IC and heavy weapons expert. Earth elemental type powers: super strength, DR, injury tolerance (homogeneous) and permeation.

Sniper, former spy and gymnast. Speedster super. Notable powers: enhanced time sense, altered time rate, super running and super DX.

Infiltrator, another former spy. Notable powers include: morph (unlimited, cosmetic only), mimicry, binding, injury tolerance (homogeneous)

Gadgeteer, former combat engineer and medic, with Engineering! and Science! wild card skills. Notable powers: gadgeteer, healing and injury tolerance (homogeneous).

All characters have regeneration.
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