Giving Allies damage bonuses (power review)

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by JMD

I didn't get that impression from reading the full text block, but I can see where you are coming from.

Going with your interpretation, let's say I add force field for +50%. That still makes the DR option way cheaper than the +1 pt of damage option, and is still way better.

Force Field is only +20%

Also, the result is then a bubble of protection giving everyone inside it DR 1 vs attacks from outside. Anyone within the area attacks everyone else in the area without the protection of the field.

It is a debatable point which is better, but they are powers of a different nature. If they were both Afflictions, you wouldn't be comparing apples to oranges and you'll see the price difference you would expect.

[JMD]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Force Field is only +20%

Also, the result is then a bubble of protection giving everyone inside it DR 1 vs attacks from outside. Anyone within the area attacks everyone else in the area without the protection of the field.

It is a debatable point which is better, but they are powers of a different nature. If they were both Afflictions, you wouldn't be comparing apples to oranges and you'll see the price difference you would expect.

That is true. Except what I am comparing are two powers (aka 2 apples), one does something way better then the other, for way cheaper.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by munin

"If you apply Force Field to [Damage Resistance], you may add Affects Others for a flat +50%, provided you also take at least one level of Area Effect." (p. P108).

That seems very clear that you can only add Affects Others to DR if it also has Force Field and Area Effect. The intent is not to grant your defense to others, but to say your own defense manifests as a barrier at a distance from your skin far enough to be of use to others.

This is a fundamentally different concept than granting abilities to others by an affliction aura, so there is no problem with them having different costs.

It the other way around it not that Forced Field is needed for Affect others, it is Affect Others is needed for Area Effect...

also not without modifers like Force field Affect Others Requires you to be /touching/ to keep the effect

And Area Effect without Selective Affect works an areaveone in the area friend and foe alike.

if you want to Buff them with DR then let them move away from you, you kinda need Affliction

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by JMD

I didn't get that impression from reading the full text block, but I can see where you are coming from.

Going with your interpretation, let's say I add force field for +50%. That still makes the DR option way cheaper than the +1 pt of damage option, and is still way better.

That still doesn't give each ally a separate DR, but puts a single barrier at some distance from the user which can protect others from attacks that cross it. Enemies inside the shield would be able to attack without the protection. (To keep enemies from getting inside you'd need to use a Wall Innate Attack). I'm not entirely sure how it would interact with Explosive attacks launched from outside; they would logically detonate against the edge of the shield (except for SAPHE, APEX etc) giving everyone inside the benefit of DR and a greater distance from the blast point, but that feels a little like double-dipping.

Anyways, to give each ally their own DR (Force Screen or otherwise) takes Affliction.

[JMD]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

That still doesn't give each ally a separate DR, but puts a single barrier at some distance from the user which can protect others from attacks that cross it. Enemies inside the shield would be able to attack without the protection. (To keep enemies from getting inside you'd need to use a Wall Innate Attack). I'm not entirely sure how it would interact with Explosive attacks launched from outside; they would logically detonate against the edge of the shield (except for SAPHE, APEX etc) giving everyone inside the benefit of DR and a greater distance from the blast point, but that feels a little like double-dipping.

Anyways, to give each ally their own DR (Force Screen or otherwise) takes Affliction.

Agreed. In any event I still find an Area 2 force field DR to be much cheaper and much more effective then +1 damage with the same area.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by JMD

Agreed. In any event I still find an Area 2 force field DR to be much cheaper and much more effective then +1 damage with the same area.

Is it? If Able has both powers, and Bob is inside the area fighting Charlie who is also inside the area, Bob has +1 damage, but doesn't get +1 DR. The DR is only effective against attacks for outside the bubble!

[munin]

Originally Posted by JMD

... In any event I still find an Area 2 force field DR to be much cheaper and much more effective then +1 damage with the same area.

Let's compare DR (Affects Others, et al.) to Affliction (DR, et al.) to keep things simple.

Affliction has a high buy-in for all the enhancements needed to build the aura (27.5 points for Affliction 1 with Aura of Power), but the DR it grants costs exactly the same as buying DR for yourself (5/level). Affects Others for DR, on the other hand, costs an extra 6 points per level (Affects Others, +50%; Area Effect, 2 yards, +50%; Force Field, +20%). Those two cost-structures are going to break even around DR 5. At DR 5+, Affliction (DR) is going to be cheaper than DR (Affects Others).

GURPS Powers acknowledges that sometimes there will be different ways to build abilities and that some options may be cheaper than others (Multiple-Choice Problems, pp. P115-116). But if you're going to be granting other abilities that will require an Affliction Aura (like follow-up damage), I'd just use the same mechanic for all the buffs.

[kdtipa]

Originally Posted by munin

"If you apply Force Field to [Damage Resistance], you may add Affects Others for a flat +50%, provided you also take at least one level of Area Effect." (p. P108).

That seems very clear that you can only add Affects Others to DR if it also has Force Field and Area Effect. The intent is not to grant your defense to others, but to say your own defense manifests as a barrier at a distance from your skin far enough to be of use to others.

This is a fundamentally different concept than granting abilities to others by an affliction aura, so there is no problem with them having different costs.

I disagree with the folks that have been saying you can only take affects others on DR if you also take area effect and force field. The quoted sentence only means that if you take area effect and force field, the affects others enhancement will only cost 50%, no matter how big the area, or how many people can get inside. By default, the Affects Others enhancement is a leveled enhancement that you take for each additional person you want a given advantage to be able to affect. I think if you wanted to, by the RAW, you could apply affects others to DR, and each level you buy would mean being able to provide for each person touching you.

Slight tangent... this seems like a pretty straightforward thing... making an aura that's basically like the auras in Diablo 2 for the paladin class. It's an area that grants allies a benefit like extra damage, extra protection, and so on. Why is it so hard to model that for granting extra damage?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by kdtipa

Slight tangent... this seems like a pretty straightforward thing... making an aura that's basically like the auras in Diablo 2 for the paladin class. It's an area that grants allies a benefit like extra damage, extra protection, and so on. Why is it so hard to model that for granting extra damage?

Isn't this exactly what Auras of Power do? I don't see it being all that hard.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by kdtipa

It's an area that grants allies a benefit like extra damage, extra protection, and so on. Why is it so hard to model that for granting extra damage?

Becuase it a hole that imbudments were meant to patch, without imbudments to give bonus damage you need to know the biggest attack it could enhance to price it