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Old 09-14-2012, 10:23 AM   #21
the_matrix_walker
 
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Default Re: Giving Allies damage bonuses (power review)

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Originally Posted by JMD View Post
If you have another solution to keep it sense based (hearing) and keep me far away from the +100% malediction enhancement, I would love to hear it!
You could use bard song... But then you have to play an instrument...

As for Melee...
originally seen here...
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...6&postcount=14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm via PM with Transmetahuman
Powers states that an always-on damage field requires Aura (+80%), Always On (-40%), and Melee Attack (-30%). That's a range 0, "if I touch you or you touch me" type of thing. An actual radius would amount to adding Area Effect on top of it all. That might not be "canon," but it's logical and the simplest way to do it. So a 4-yard field would add Area Effect 2 (+100%) and the net modifier would be +110%. I don't see any conflicts: Aura covers the "free attack" effect, Always On addresses the "constant effect" angle, Melee Attack takes care of the "ground zero is at range zero" element, and Area Effect handles the "blankets an area" aspect. You can omit Always On -- for a net +150% -- if you want it to work like an ordinary Aura that you can switch on and off. The other aspects don't seem negotiable.
And later seen again in Power Ups 4 : Enhancements, when designing aura's of power and power songs.

Can't believe I zoned on terminal conditions! I had been on the same page, lol...
But re-read the first sentence. "Only allowed on abilities that affect others for at least a minute." I would say that makes it incompatible with Reduced Duration.

Last edited by the_matrix_walker; 09-14-2012 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:32 AM   #22
JMD
 
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Default Re: Giving Allies damage bonuses (power review)

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Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker View Post

As for Melee...
originally seen here...
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...6&postcount=14

And later seen again in Power Ups 4 : Enhancements, when designing aura's of power and power songs.

I see. I also just reread aura, and it specifically states that it must be taken in conjunction with Melee C anyways.


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Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker View Post
Can't believe I zoned on terminal conditions! I had been on the same page, lol...
But re-read the first sentence. "Only allowed on abilities that affect others for at least a minute." I would say that makes it incompatible with Reduced Duration.
True, but I'll probably keep it on there anyways because I don't want people to be able to leave the field and retain the benefits. At high levels the power matures into a 30 second aura (which can easily be an entire battle.)
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:39 AM   #23
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Default Re: Giving Allies damage bonuses (power review)

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True, but I'll probably keep it on there anyways because I don't want people to be able to leave the field and retain the benefits. At high levels the power matures into a 30 second aura (which can easily be an entire battle.)
Maybe I could just make it a -10% nuisance instead?
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:21 PM   #24
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Default Re: Giving Allies damage bonuses (power review)

So something I am running into is that it is very frustrating that I can give +1 DR to 4 allies (and myself) with this for 30 seconds for 24 points in an 8 area spread...

Quote:
Damage Resistance 1 [5]
Affects Others 4 [+200%], Area Effect 8 [+150%], Aura [+80%],Switchable [+10%], Reduced Time 1 [+20%]
Reduced Duration 1/2 (30 seconds) [-5%]
Melee C [-30%], Terminal Condition (Target leaves field or field goes down)[-10%],
Costs FP 1 [-5%], Sonic [-20%], Activation (WL/H)[-10%]
= 24
...and giving +1 to damage to allies within a 2 Area spread for only 3 seconds costs about the same...

Quote:
Affliction 1 [10]
Advantage
(Innate Attack Burn 1pt [2], Follow Up [+0%], Universal (Apply to Any Attack Type) [+50%] = 3) [30%])
Area Effect 2 [+50%], Aura [+80%], Selective Area [+20%], Malediction [+100%],
Melee C [-30%], Reduced Duration 1/20 (3 seconds) [-25%], Hearing Based [-20%],
Terminal Condition (Target leaves field or field goes down)[-10%],
Nuisance (Must be only active Rally) [-5%],
Costs FP 1 [-5%], Sonic [-20%], Activation (WL/H)[-10%]
= 26
There has to be a better way to do this. I would honestly think 1 DR is better than +1 damage, especially since for the +1 to count they need to:
1. Hit with the attack
2. Enemy fails to defend
3. Roll damage and actually get through DR

Then and only then do they get a +1, and even then it's only AFTER the damage modifier is calculated.
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:48 PM   #25
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Default Re: Giving Allies damage bonuses (power review)

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Originally Posted by JMD View Post
So something I am running into is that it is very frustrating that I can give +1 DR to 4 allies (and myself) with this for 30 seconds for 24 points in an 8 area spread...



...and giving +1 to damage to allies within a 2 Area spread for only 3 seconds costs about the same...



There has to be a better way to do this. I would honestly think 1 DR is better than +1 damage, especially since for the +1 to count they need to:
1. Hit with the attack
2. Enemy fails to defend
3. Roll damage and actually get through DR

Then and only then do they get a +1, and even then it's only AFTER the damage modifier is calculated.
The difference is in still using the Affects Others approach for DR. To balance them, make them both Afflictions.

Affects Others has specific restricted uses, and really should only be combined with DR if you are adding Force Field.
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:55 PM   #26
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Default Re: Giving Allies damage bonuses (power review)

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Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker View Post
The difference is in still using the Affects Others approach for DR. To balance them, make them both Afflictions.
Basing them both on Affliction would make one needlessly more expensive, as there is a cheaper alternative. Having pointed out that one is cheaper than the other, I wouldn't think the goal would be to use a different build to make it more expensive. The goal should be to instead figure out a way to make the other cheaper, or to think of a way to balance them without ignoring that a cheaper option exists.

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Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker View Post
Affects Others has specific restricted uses, and really should only be combined with DR if you are adding Force Field.
There is no restriction to using DR without force field. The force field enhancement is a suggestion, and only if you want the DR to act like a bubble around those in the area.

Instead, what the build I made does is confer a separate +1 DR to each ally up to 4 in the area, so they can have melee battles and still benefit from the DR.
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Old 09-14-2012, 02:06 PM   #27
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Default Re: Giving Allies damage bonuses (power review)

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Originally Posted by JMD View Post
There is no restriction to using DR without force field. The force field enhancement is a suggestion, and only if you want the DR to act like a bubble around those in the area.
I disagree. If you read Affects Others, the third paragraph (on the start of page 108) states that this is version of the enhancement is for movement and transformations (like growth and shrinking) to keep the party together. It may be allowed on other abilities when they are used "to keep the party together". It's not to simply hand out buffs, that's what Affliction is for.
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Old 09-14-2012, 02:09 PM   #28
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Default Re: Giving Allies damage bonuses (power review)

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Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker View Post
I disagree. If you read Affects Others, the third paragraph (on the start of page 108) states that this is version of the enhancement is for movement and transformations (like growth and shrinking) to keep the party together. It's not to simply hand out buffs, that's what Affliction is for.
I can totally read it and understand where you are coming from, but there is a confusing nature to the description of the enhancement that implies that you can use it for DR powers, and, if you choose, can also add on Force Field.
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Old 09-14-2012, 02:33 PM   #29
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Default Re: Giving Allies damage bonuses (power review)

"If you apply Force Field to [Damage Resistance], you may add Affects Others for a flat +50%, provided you also take at least one level of Area Effect." (p. P108).

That seems very clear that you can only add Affects Others to DR if it also has Force Field and Area Effect. The intent is not to grant your defense to others, but to say your own defense manifests as a barrier at a distance from your skin far enough to be of use to others.

This is a fundamentally different concept than granting abilities to others by an affliction aura, so there is no problem with them having different costs.
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Old 09-14-2012, 02:41 PM   #30
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Default Re: Giving Allies damage bonuses (power review)

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"If you apply Force Field to [Damage Resistance], you may add Affects Others for a flat +50%, provided you also take at least one level of Area Effect." (p. P108).

That seems very clear that you can only add Affects Others to DR if it also has Force Field and Area Effect. The intent is not to grant your defense to others, but to say your own defense manifests as a barrier at a distance from your skin far enough to be of use to others.

This is a fundamentally different concept than granting abilities to others by an affliction aura, so there is no problem with them having different costs.
I didn't get that impression from reading the full text block, but I can see where you are coming from.

Going with your interpretation, let's say I add force field for +50%. That still makes the DR option way cheaper than the +1 pt of damage option, and is still way better.
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