Janus and Valefor

[Methariel]

Hello everybody,

it took me a long time to bring myself to post this, because it is one of the most interesting secrets of the game and probably quite loaden with rumors. And who am I to raise my voice concerning a topic as great as this?
We all know the hints - but to which conclusions do they lead us? What is it about Valefor and Janus? How are these two celestial powers connected?
I've stumbled across several interesting theories about these two:
Some think, that Janus and Valefor are a sort of twins, with one being the "good guy" and the other the "evil twin".
Others think that all...oddities...are merely coincidential and that they're just two Superiors who are quite similar, use similar methods - but to different ends. Maybe one (Valefor) likes to copy the other (Janus), just to mock the older one.
And again others think, what even Demon Princes only hint at - that Janus and Valefor are one and the same being. That'd explain their extended periods of absence in Heaven or Hell (the being is at the other place if it's missing at one place), the similarity of their servants and many other things.
And did you see that in the "Princely Opinions"-section of the Kobal-chapter in "Superiors 2" (p. 76)? Kobal says about Janus: "Flighty and unpredictable. What his role is in the War, I have yet to determine. By the way. . .have you ever seen Janus and Valefor in the same room together? Me neither."

So what do you think about this all?

Methariel

[Sagitta]

Originally Posted by Methariel

Kobal says about Janus: "Flighty and unpredictable. What his role is in the War, I have yet to determine. By the way. . .have you ever seen Janus and Valefor in the same room together? Me neither."

Kobal wouldn't imply that if he thought it was true: it's funnier if no-one suspects. Unless he expects people to think he's pulling their legs, and it's a double-bluff...

Valefor's always stealing a march on Janus, of course, and he loves to steal his thunder even more. But perhaps he's trying to steal his identity too.

Or ... celestials can't have multiple personalities, can they?

[cappadocius]

Then there's the 'net theory that Valefor is the Janus from a failed creation who managed to escape its destruction. I forget which heretic-setting that's from. :)

[RadLilim]

My favorite theory is here: http://harukami.hanashika.com/fanfic...lingpoint.html

But then Oannes is my favorite Superior *shrugs*

Not my work, all credit to Haru.

[tylrlsaa]

Originally Posted by RadLilim

My favorite theory is here: http://harukami.hanashika.com/fanfic...lingpoint.html

Veeery interesting.

[Archangel Beth]

As a note, the whole Janus-Valefor thing is not CDaU -- it's just "We're not telling you that right now." On the other hand, the Valefor Superior expansion (in Superiors 4) is written so it doesn't give away the answer, and so will the Janus one eventually be done. That way, if someone hates our choice, they can ignore it.

I would dance around the issue in more detail, but I need to get the Impudite Princess of Cute to bed. First Grade tomorrow. Eeeek!

[ArchonShiva]

To the risk of getting Beth to hate me for it, I'll give this "hint":

In the original game, it was finally stated in a separate GM notes booklet that Valefor was a cover Janus used for a very successful mission into Hell, who got so popular down there he was awarded a posting as Demon Prince. Yves knows about him, and perhaps Kronos or Asmodeus.

This applies to the Croc/Siroz Asmodée edition of the game, and SJ games may choose to go a different route. Some Archangels are quite different between the two editions, with the original original Michael a converted viking god and Novalis basically a pothead, so we can't tell for J&V. I know what I think.

So in the end, make up your own mind.

Also on the subject of the Demon Prince of Disinformation: There is no Demon Prince of Disinformation. There never was a Demon Prince of Disinformation, and no one is even planning having on one, nor planning on becoming it. Shut up with that already.

[Methariel]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

As a note, the whole Janus-Valefor thing is not CDaU -- it's just "We're not telling you that right now." On the other hand, the Valefor Superior expansion (in Superiors 4) is written so it doesn't give away the answer, and so will the Janus one eventually be done.

Well, doesn't that mean, that we will never know the answer...and can make up one for ourselves?
(It somehow doesn't feel right to be given the answer by something as "small" as an adventure - to do it this way, you'd need another "Revelations Cycle", at least. Of course, that's just my opinion.)

Methariel

[milliken]

Originally Posted by Methariel

Well, doesn't that mean, that we will never know the answer...and can make up one for ourselves?

That would basically be CDaU, actually.

Originally Posted by Methariel

(It somehow doesn't feel right to be given the answer by something as "small" as an adventure - to do it this way, you'd need another "Revelations Cycle", at least.

I think the original status of this issue was supposed to be resolved in a cycle after the Revelations Cycle, possibly the one right after. That plan more or less died after the cycle concept proved to be a bad idea....

In some ways, it makes sense to me that it would be in an adventure, or something similar. That way, there can be an "official" answer, without binding it into the core rules set, and messing up GMs who did decide on their own answer. And whatever the answer is, it's going to be a major project to uncover it, given how long people (in-game) have wondered about the Janus/Valefor thing.

Obviously, there's a line there somewhere -- GMs will always do their own thing, and the line core will always manage to contradict that some of the time. Balancing that is tricky, and generally draws complaints, either way.

---Walter

[tylrlsaa]

Essentially, even though the issue is not CDaU, it's ended up there due to the (sadly) glacial release schedule.

Could be worse. At least it's an open spot that's produced some interesting ideas.