KHAAAAAAAAAN('s ST)

[chandley]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

His strength was his main defining characteristic despite it being a bit silly. Why boost a human's strength to such absurd levels anyway? It's like spending huge amounts of time and effort into making a really smart ant. It's not playing to your strengths, pardon the pun.

Wasnt the Star Trek eugenics thing kind of the classic, ego driven "uber-human"? Seems like being beefy but not muscle bound and really really strong always gets attached to those, and damn the logic behind it anyway. Its a vanity project after all.

[vicky_molokh]

Some discussion of one-handed neck-lifting.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Why boost a human's strength to such absurd levels anyway?

It could be either vanity or utility.

I hope I don't need t explain the vanity but the utility is not inconsequential.

As a simple example the average pack for a modern soldier is 80 lbs or more. For ST of 15 or less that's Medium Encumberance and 60% with increased fP use. For a ST of 20+ it's be no Enc and the soldier might have increased Move and FP anyway.

ST si also a prime source of HP. HP make you harder to kill and their's nothing more practical than that.

UT is also full of 70lb "Semi-portable" weapons that are fully portable without assistance at ST20+. It's alwasy good to bring the biggest gun to the gunfight. Or even just more ammo for a regular gun.

Now, if your gnetically perfect human is goign to be soem Eloi lliving in a hermetically sealed chamber (probally decorated in a sea of off-white and beige) and does nothing but direct AI who don't really need him anyway, low ST is okay but it's not going to be any fun either.

Progress isn't always exaggerating your strengths. Sometimes it's smoothing out your weak points.

[Stormcrow]

"I have five times your strength, captain. You are no match for me."

[Stupid Jedi]

I would say that Khan has ST 22 with Lifting ST 8. This way, his HP and Striking ST aren't too ridiculous, and he can still pull off amazing one-handed lifts.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

"I have five times your strength, captain. You are no match for me."

That's ST 23 in Gurps if Khan thought Kirk was only st 10.

[chandley]

And calling Cpn Kirk ST13 isnt beyond the pale (which puts Khan at 29 or 30). Kirk was a pretty good brawler.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Dusqune

At what point does seemingly unproportionate strength become an issue? I never thought of Khan as terribly disproportionate until I sat down and did the (GURPS) math. Now I look at him and go, "Why aren't you super bulked-up?" But your points make sense--I had forgotten about Spock.

Considering ST (and by extension HP) assume bulk in GURPS, how would you represent that not being the case?

I don't know that it ever *really* becomes an issue for ST. After all machines can have ST scores vastly out of proportion to their weight by human standards. If you are in a setting where your invisible ST has some surprise value, well, I've called for a perk (Deceptive Appearance) for other disconnects between what you look like and what you are capable of that are serious enough to cause opponents who don't know you to significantly underestimate you. I've mostly used it for implausibly competent "superkids" but I suppose that it could apply to ST too.

For HP, there probably ought to be a "does not apply to slams or collisions" limitation for cases HP aren't related to mass, though since that also reduces falling damage RAW, it might well be worth -0%. It's certainly not a very big limit.

[chandley]

Yah, massless HP/ST is -0% by RAW in Supers I believe.

[Dusqune]

Originally Posted by chandley

And calling Cpn Kirk ST13 isnt beyond the pale (which puts Khan at 29 or 30). Kirk was a pretty good brawler.

This.

Originally Posted by malloyd

For HP, there probably ought to be a "does not apply to slams or collisions" limitation for cases HP aren't related to mass, though since that also reduces falling damage RAW, it might well be worth -0%. It's certainly not a very big limit.

And this! Rolled a success on my search skill.

I would probably give Khan the 30-ish ST with his 'massed' HP around...14? The rest of it being 'massless.'

And I would note, he probably does have some sort of Power Blow or something, it's just never shown in WoK, where it was in ToS. Also, given that he doesn't show as many 'casual' ST feats in ToS, he may have bought up some ST between the two events.