KHAAAAAAAAAN('s ST)

[Dusqune]

In Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, Khan lifts Chekov off the ground with one hand. Now, I've never felt very clear about the definition of Basic Lift--lifting a weight over your head from what point? Do you have to lift the object completely over your head or just lift your hand (i.e., the point by which you are holding it) over your head, etc.--however, this particular scene seems pretty close, at least, to a textbook demonstration of Basic Lift.

He lifts Chekov from about chest level to 'top of his head' level in barely over one second. However, what's notable is that BL is defined as the maximum you can lift over your head in one second, but Khan seems to do this almost effortlessly.

Now, I'm not sure how much Chekov weighs, but he's of short stature and not incredibly well built. The suits they were wearing were considerably bulky, and I imagine weigh a decent amount (even with UT materials--they didn't exactly look lightweight, at least). I'll call him 180 lbs total.*

sqrt(180*5)=30

Khan--unless I'm fundamentally mistaken somewhere--has at least a ST of 30. Which, arguably is supported by his backstory. Also, he chucks a piece of the bridge across the room at one point--He does struggle with it, but it appeared to be more because of the bulk than the weight because once he gets it pointed and aimed, he throws it like it's cardboard (of course, the actual set looked like cardboard, but I think it was supposed to be metal).

I think what surprises me the most of all this is that we tend to reserve uber-high ST without uber-large bulk to Supers. However, we have a case where someone who could easily be out muscle-bulked by a bodybuilder with ST 30.

Comments? Corrections?

*I weight 180 lbs, and I think Khan could pick me up like that if I had a convenient hook he could grab me by. Also, I'm pretty sure that in the original script he picks up Terrell instead, who is larger than Chekov.

[Flyndaran]

Star Trek is all about supers. Khan is all about brawn being defeated by brain and good old American moxie.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Dusqune

Comments? Corrections?

Really high ST for your build isn't a particularly unusual trait in Star Trek, even from biological sources. For example Spock has it.
And of course actors who happen to be heavily muscled body builders aren't *that* thick on the ground.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Dusqune

I think what surprises me the most of all this is that we tend to reserve uber-high ST without uber-large bulk to Supers. However, we have a case where someone who could easily be out muscle-bulked by a bodybuilder with ST 30.
.

Yes. Khan has superpowers.

[Dusqune]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Star Trek is all about supers. Khan is all about brawn being defeated by brain and good old American moxie.

True, but if I were to walk up to someone and give them a brief description of Khan it would involve the words 'genetic,' 'strong,' 'man-cleavage,' and 'eugenics.' But 'super,' at least in the superhero sense, would not come up.

Also, he boasts a good number of times about having 'the superior intellect,' though he shows very few impressive intellectual feats.

Originally Posted by malloyd

Really high ST for your build isn't a particularly unusual trait in Star Trek, even from biological sources. For example Spock has it.
And of course actors who happen to be heavily muscled body builders aren't *that* thick on the ground.

At what point does seemingly unproportionate strength become an issue? I never thought of Khan as terribly disproportionate until I sat down and did the (GURPS) math. Now I look at him and go, "Why aren't you super bulked-up?" But your points make sense--I had forgotten about Spock.

Considering ST (and by extension HP) assume bulk in GURPS, how would you represent that not being the case?

[chandley]

Biotech lets you shift Lifting/Striking ST above base ST (and HPs), by quite a bit at higher TL. Not quite to Khans calculated 30, but this is Star Trek, not GURPS Biotech :)

Just say he has ST 14-15 and the rest is Lifting/Striking ST.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Dusqune

True, but if I were to walk up to someone and give them a brief description of Khan it would involve the words 'genetic,' 'strong,' 'man-cleavage,' and 'eugenics.' But 'super,' at least in the superhero sense, would not come up.

It's space opera, not the supers genre, but you could totally do a League of Superheros in the canonical Star Trek setting. Just get a Vulcan, an android, the child that Apollo engendered on his girlfriend, someone who got hit by the super-power granting barrier at the end of the galaxy, a person from the superspeed race who has learned to control and switch off their superspeed....

[Dusqune]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

It's space opera, not the supers genre, but you could totally do a League of Superheros in the canonical Star Trek setting. Just get a Vulcan, an android, the child that Apollo engendered on his girlfriend, someone who got hit by the super-power granting barrier at the end of the universe, a person from the superspeed race who has learned to control and switch off their superspeed....

That actually sounds kindof fun...

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Dusqune

He lifts Chekov from about chest level to 'top of his head' level in barely over one second.

BL is the max you can lift over head in one second or less without Extra Effort, Lifting Skill or several other tricks.

If you have 2 seconds you can lift 2x BL over head with one hand. So if you make Khan's feat a little less casual than the way some other lower level Supers do you're problem is halved.

There's also Lifting Skill and without burning FP this still gives an "almost always" bonus of 5% to BL per point of Skils over 16 and a "usually" bonus of 5% per pt over 11 or so. Extra Effort would roughly double these numbers.

Genetically Khan would be limited to a ST of 22 if he's really Eugenic as Bio-tech defines that but he also shows signs of some esoteric training. In the TOS he breaks out of his quarters by doing a deep breathing exercise and then forcing the sliding door back in its' track. That could be just Extra Effort but it could also be Power Blow.

Certain Martial Arts Styles can also deliver 1 pt of Lifting ST + 1 of striking St and 3pts of Arm ST.

If Khan is Parahuman and not Eugenic we're talking a possible ST of 30 with gengineered Lift +Strike on top of that plus Explosive Stength for another+5 at the cost of 1FP.

Khan might have been "only" Eugenic as it was implied but not made explicit in Wrath that one of his younger followers was his son by the woman from the Enterprise crew who went into exile with him.

On the other hand, the Augments from the 4th season Enterprise arc were defintely maxed out TL11 Parahumans.

Finally as regards ST and bulk Gurps is quite mild on this issue with no more than the Build table which suggest a normal Build for ST14+ of 6"2 and 170 lbs. At a certain pt this is obviously cinematic but so is Star Trek.

[Flyndaran]

His strength was his main defining characteristic despite it being a bit silly. Why boost a human's strength to such absurd levels anyway? It's like spending huge amounts of time and effort into making a really smart ant. It's not playing to your strengths, pardon the pun.