02-15-2018, 12:10 PM | #11 |
Join Date: Aug 2013
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Re: Martial Arts, Kusari and Rope Dart conundrum
Some problems with altering and/or making your own. Some are a nit too generous with things (my category) and some GM's (3 out of my last 5) will only use what is officially printed, official errata, or in officially produced optional material (i.e. Pyramid).
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02-15-2018, 02:46 PM | #12 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Martial Arts, Kusari and Rope Dart conundrum
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On the second I can't offer much help. As a GM I try and make what's allowed a conversation, but I'm not every GM. Have you tried showing your GM proof that weapons covered by the kusari skill in GURPS appear in Chinese martial arts (not forgetting to point out you're happy to pay the points for accessing it). Last edited by Tomsdad; 02-15-2018 at 11:44 PM. |
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02-15-2018, 03:38 PM | #13 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2013
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Re: Martial Arts, Kusari and Rope Dart conundrum
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Also, per the Errata thread, if there is something that you are unsure is an error, post it to the forum. It has been posted, and so far, it is no clearer. Apparently I seem to be the only one to voice any thoughts on this matter in that way. |
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02-16-2018, 12:03 AM | #14 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Martial Arts, Kusari and Rope Dart conundrum
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"Below is a selection of historical and modern martial arts. It’s only a small sampling, highlighting widely known or interesting styles. There are hundreds if not thousands of styles – and many have numerous sub-schools or regional or ethnic variants, or looked quite different at various points during their history." As an opening paragraph I'd say it's implicit that not only is the following list not exhaustive but adding in you own or amending the one's there is perfectly reasonable *EDIT: not that I'm claiming to be a GURPS authority who's opinions hold significant weight! Last edited by Tomsdad; 02-16-2018 at 02:28 AM. |
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02-16-2018, 01:51 AM | #15 | |
Join Date: Aug 2013
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Re: Martial Arts, Kusari and Rope Dart conundrum
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Hung Gar - mentions whip in the description and offers whip as an optional skill. Hung Gar teaches Chain Whip and Double Chain Whip (Kusari weapons) Pak Hok - This is the most glaring example. In the description it specifically mentions Chain Whip, yet gives the Whip skill not Kusari as an optional skill. Shaolin - Gives Whip and Whip Art as optional skills, however a Google search shows several school websites showing and mentioning Chain Whip. Wushu - Gives Whip Art as an optional skill. As per its description Wushu was created from several styles including Northern "Long" kung-fu (i.e. Chángquán). The Wiki page for Chángquán mentions Chain and Metoer Hammer as weapons forms. Also looking up Rope Dart, it mentions Wushu as a style and also says that Chain Whip is often learned first before Rope Dart is taught in Wushu. Now there are a few more styles that offer Whip as a skill but I am unfamiliar with and/or can find no reference to whips or kusari like weapons known (Bando, la Canne de Combat, Savate) so I have no issue here. So, omitted isn't the issue, it's something in error IMHO. Now whether the error is to change the skill, the weapon usage, or something else I don't know. I am not that skilled enough in GURPS to make that suggestion/call. That's the reason I brought to the forum, per the errata thread. Apparently I didn't explain myself well enough, my apologies. |
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02-16-2018, 02:59 AM | #16 | |||||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Martial Arts, Kusari and Rope Dart conundrum
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Moreover we're only doing that so your GM can see it in the list, despite the pretty clear inference throughout this section that these style write ups are pretty inherently malleable and open to user adaptation and interpretation Quote:
"Finding a Shaolin Kung Fu instructor in the modern world isn’t difficult – but many of these schools actually teach other kung fu styles, or Wushu (pp. 206-207), under the Shaolin name." More relevently for weapon use in the actual write up it says: "Shaolin monks also learned (or at least had access to training in) many other weapon skills. There are stories of monks using nearly every Chinese weapon" and then lists a pretty long list of weapon skills in the optional skills section. So add in Kusari no issue. But more importantly there's nothing saying someone who's spent points in the Shaolin style write up in MA can't then spend points on weapon skills outside the style listing! These are not either/or things (especially considering the nature of MA development)! You got proof that The Shaolin monks uses such weapons in the way the Kusari skill uses them then cool. Quote:
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You have to remember that not only are the Martial Style write ups in MA convenient groupings of mechanics for a RPG system, so are the different weapon skills, and so the weapons that fall under them at times! So to me it's reasonable to be *ahem* flexible when looking at the Kusari skill! Last edited by Tomsdad; 02-16-2018 at 05:58 AM. |
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02-16-2018, 03:53 AM | #17 |
Join Date: Aug 2013
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Re: Martial Arts, Kusari and Rope Dart conundrum
Tomsdad, you and I share a viewpoint on a way to handle things. I would just change it and be done in my own games. All of your points are perfectly valid.
However, I feel this is an actual error and should be in the errata. I just brought it here per protocol. Now the thing with errata, most publishers (definitely not all) actually want the feedback for their product. They want it to be as error free as possible (you would think so anyway). True, they go through playtesting and editors (well some companies anyway) but all are still human. Most errata I have seen on forums and posted is purely grammatical in error. You missed a comma here, and apostrophe there. Some are content issues that come up after publication. Some errata sets added into future prints, some stay as downloadable content. Basically, just because there is an easy work around doesn't mean it's not a error. I appreciate the discussion and your help and insight. Thanks |
02-16-2018, 04:07 AM | #18 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Martial Arts, Kusari and Rope Dart conundrum
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To me there is enough ambiguity and implied flexibility built into the MA styles system and listings to cover the change you desire and making it. But if you want something more solid I suggest request the errata, or you could PM a recognised GURPS authority here on the forum and point your GM at any response (Hang on I'll do that latter one, let's see if we can get "word of Kromm" on this) Last edited by Tomsdad; 02-16-2018 at 04:46 AM. |
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02-16-2018, 04:24 AM | #19 | |
Join Date: Aug 2013
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Re: Martial Arts, Kusari and Rope Dart conundrum
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And I can understand your view. Thanks for the discussion. |
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02-16-2018, 04:38 AM | #20 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Martial Arts, Kusari and Rope Dart conundrum
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Cheers TD Last edited by Tomsdad; 02-16-2018 at 05:53 AM. |
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