Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game Discussion Thread

[dfinlay]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

You left out "people who play GURPS but don't regularly jump online looking for GURPS content and haven't heard about this Kickstarter" and "people who might like GURPS but have never given it a chance, and will be thrilled to see DFRPG on their store shelves." It is a major error to assume that people here or backers of the Kickstarter are the totality of the market.

Plus "People who can't/don't want to drop the money for it right now" and "People who don't like/use/trust Kickstarter". I'd be very surprised if even a quarter of GURPS players backed the Kickstarter.

[lachimba]

Originally Posted by dfinlay

I'd be very surprised if even a quarter of GURPS players backed the Kickstarter.

IMHO players don't buy GURPS books GMs do.

Elsewhere in this thread we have routine PDF sales are a few hundred (let's say 500 to exaggerate) so the DFRPG is three times that. Given the kickstarter has no doubt attracted some new people I'm dubious that there another 5000 regular GURPS GMs sitting this one out. If they are then they aren't buying pyramid, PDFs or hardcovers regularly either.


Meaning once again it's attracting those new players or GMs who will see DFRPG in a store or catalogue and try it out THEN make their first online PDF purchase.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by dfinlay

Plus "People who can't/don't want to drop the money for it right now"

There is that!

I know many gamers. The ones who aren't GURPS fans invest thousands of dollars per year in their hobby. They boast basements full of books, figures, and dice. They often drop cash on "big ticket" gaming expenses such as custom gaming tables, dedicated gaming rooms, and international travel to gaming cons. The ones who are GURPS fans seem to be far less generous in their spending.

My theory is that buying one game that covers lots of genres is attractive to those who cannot or will not spend money on gaming. Conversely, being obsessed with one publisher's take on a single, very narrow, very popular genre seems highly correlated with spending a few hundred bucks a month on gaming. I suspect that taking GURPS in the direction of one popular genre, as we are doing here, may be the best strategy for reaching gamers who are willing to spend more . . . though we might not reach them with this campaign.

Of course, I have no idea what the average gamer's financial situation is outside of my immediate sphere. My income as an editor, writer, and developer of games is considered distressingly low among my local peers (i.e., Canadians in their late 40s to mid 50s with postgraduate degrees), low enough that people comment on it, even though that's quite rude. Despite that, I still manage to support a couple of not-so-cheap hobbies: Argentine tango (with its costly lessons and events and shoes) and mixology (with its expensive ingredients and tools). Most of my peers spend far more on their hobbies – my gaming friends have their rooms full of stuff, my tango friends travel to festivals several times a year, and my mixology mates attend expensive tastings and buy $100+/bottle spirits all the time!

Thus, I might be living in a bubble where people earn more than average, which might leave me with unrealistic expectations about spending on games. But I suspect that generic games are simply more attractive to those with more conservative spending habits.

So people have about 16 hours to prove me wrong. Get to it! :)

[scc]

Originally Posted by Kromm

My theory is that buying one game that covers lots of genres is attractive to those who cannot or will not spend money on gaming. Conversely, being obsessed with one publisher's take on a single, very narrow, very popular genre seems highly correlated with spending a few hundred bucks a month on gaming. I suspect that taking GURPS in the direction of one popular genre, as we are doing here, may be the best strategy for reaching gamers who are willing to spend more . . . though we might not reach them with this campaign.

So what are these other genres?

Also I'm guessing with the latest W23 data we're probably over the mark for those dice by now

[trooper6]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Thus, I might be living in a bubble where people earn more than average, which might leave me with unrealistic expectations about spending on games. But I suspect that generic games are simply more attractive to those with more conservative spending habits.

*Looks at my gaming shelf and all the GURPS books there...then looks at all my GURPS pdfs*

I have spent more on GURPS than I have on any other game. Though I'm one of those less popular GURPS GMs in that I liked the historicals and the "less popular" books. But I bought them all anyway.

[Refplace]

I have purchased almost every GURPS book there is since it came out. The data your looking at might also be a simple supply vs. demand issue, I spend far less on GURPS now than I did back when there were regular printed materials even though I make more money. Simply because the amount of content has slowed down.
I skipped the WW II stuff and a couple of years worth of production when work demands did not allow me any free time, though I did go back and buy most of that stuff later.
There is content I have not purchased due to taste but then some items I purchased multiple copies of.

Of course higher production volume wont solve everything, there is choice also and GURPS is spread across several genres. So not everyone will be interested in everything.

[Zarmonic]

Thanks for the refreshingly personal post Kromm!

Questions on my mind...

Currently, when I walk into my local game store and peruse the RPG section, the number of GURPS related material represented comes in at approximately none! Supply and demand, business is business and all, yeah, I get it. I love working with PDF's anyway.

So when this DFRPG beast gets unleashed upon the world, will this be a likely exception then? What kind of promotional efforts can we expect to help further the cause?

I only ask because I might just want to help by taking charge in my area and running demo games in my local area, conventions, game stores, whatever.

What would be the best advised course for someone to do that?

[Refplace]

The Dice stretch has been hit.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by Refplace

The Dice stretch has been hit.

Was just about to post that - we're at $187,505 with the current Warehouse 23 dollar amount factored in. (and in the 3 minutes it took to type up my questions we've already blown past that by a couple hundred more)

This leads me to the next set of all important questions - can we get the dice as an add-ons now, and what will the cost for them be? Also, will the dice all be the same colors, will they be random, (or can we vote on a color scheme?). As an add-on will we get to choose colors if they're available in multiples colors?

[lachimba]

Originally Posted by Refplace

I spend far less on GURPS now than I did back when there were regular printed materials even though I make more money. Simply because the amount of content has slowed down..

I also spend less an earn more. But that's true for many of my hobbies as a young man vs now.

As for content I don't believe GURPS could release much more.

We already have Martial Arts, Lowtech, several magic systems etc. I really don't believe another five book s on each of those topic are desirable. Already I struggle to remember where advantages and limitations popped up.
I long for GURPS index so I can find everything!

What could come with more customers is colour, limited print runs, software (I long for $10apps to do GURPS work for me eg a build a character app etc)

Also simplifying things is a goal for me too. DFRPG breaks from GURPS by not having the building block model of just one more book. It's like Psionic Powers which boots out Powers, but it's one step more booting out Lowtech, magic, DF books and the basic set. I read people on these forums asking what they need to play GURPS and they get told so many books for any genre. Now when players want to play DF I can give them one (ok maybe two if they are a spellcaster) book. Done.