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Old 07-23-2023, 01:08 PM   #1
Tinman
 
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Default [Magic] [Powers] Help with resistance rolls when target is missing an attribute

So I was running the adventure Cavern of the Chronomancer (pyr.3-56.p.12).
The party was ambushed by a pair of Primordial Purple Slimes & one of the mages (there are 3 in the party) cast the spell Glue.

Glue is resisted by ST, however the slimes have a ST:0 (they do have HP though).

What is the RAW answer to this?
Do they just auto-fail & are permanently stuck? That's must unsatisfying as GM.
What house rules do you guys use for situations like this?

Thanks.
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Old 07-23-2023, 01:36 PM   #2
mlangsdorf
 
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Default Re: [Magic] [Powers] Help with resistance rolls when target is missing an attribute

The slimes have a ST attribute. It has a value of 0. The Glue effect should keep them until the spell expires unless they have some way of moving that allows them to avoid the Glue effect. That's what they get for selling ST down to 0.

You might argue that the Diffuse nature of slimes, which prevents them from being grappled, also prevents them from being stopped by a Glue spell. That seems a little bogus to me, but it may be a solution. In that case, I would rule that the slime loses 3 HP (the base cost of Glue) for each hex of Glue that the slime moves through, representing parts of the slime that are forcibly left behind as the slime moves.
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Old 07-24-2023, 01:59 PM   #3
Varyon
 
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Default Re: [Magic] [Powers] Help with resistance rolls when target is missing an attribute

In the case of slime monsters, which are based on slime molds (but markedly taller), you'd really only have a relatively-thin layer of cells stuck fast to the Glue effect, so the argument could be made that they wouldn't really be affected, or might lose an HP or so in the process of flowing over the Glued area (but with the typical size one sees for a slime monster, the lost layer would be so thin relative to the rest of the monster as to not even rate the loss of a single HP). Also in the case of something like a slime monster, I could see cause to allow them to substitute HP for ST in cases like this (honestly, as a homogenous entity, a large slime monster would probably have a respectable ST). But in general, I believe if a creature has a score of 0 or - and is affected by something that calls for a roll against that score, either they automatically fail or you make a roll and they have to hope for a 3 or 4 (IIRC, resistance can always be rolled, regardless of effective score; once the effective score is 4 or lower, you can only get a critical success - with a 3 or 4 - or none at all). Unless they're immune, anyway.
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Old 07-24-2023, 04:35 PM   #4
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: [Magic] [Powers] Help with resistance rolls when target is missing an attribute

I like the idea of the slime taking hit points of damage as the glue spell rips part of its mass away due to it's unusual physical nature. Also it should probably slow down while doing that.
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Old 07-24-2023, 10:47 PM   #5
Tinman
 
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Default Re: [Magic] [Powers] Help with resistance rolls when target is missing an attribute

I love the replies. I am truly torn between the two offered solutions:

mlangsdorf's
Quote:
I would rule that the slime loses 3 HP (the base cost of Glue) for each hex of Glue that the slime moves through, representing parts of the slime that are forcibly left behind as the slime moves.
and Varyon's
Quote:
I could see cause to allow them to substitute HP for ST in cases like this
Especially because in the monster's notes in the adventure it has a choke/strangle attack which uses ST but the notes specify to use it's HP stat instead of ST for those attacks.

Until I get a satisfactory answer, I'll use one of the two above.
However, is there a RAW answer?
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Old 07-24-2023, 11:18 PM   #6
Taneli
 
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Default Re: [Magic] [Powers] Help with resistance rolls when target is missing an attribute

As Basic Set notes, an attribute of 0 is always a bit of a special case, but in general I tend to rule that resistance rolls are like defence rolls and you always can attempt them. 3 would be a critical success and a 4 a normal success, so the slime would most likely be stuck.

However, their other abilities might change this, but checking from their traits, I didn't immediately see anything that would, see the list below:

Traits: Amphibious; Doesn’t Breathe; Doesn’t Sleep; High Pain
Threshold; Immunity to Metabolic Hazards; Injury Toler-
ance (Diffuse; Infiltration, Can ooze under barriers and
through tiny holes); Innate Attack (2d corrosion; Melee;
Reach C, 1); Invertebrate; No Legs (Slithers); No Manipula-
tors; Vibration Sense (Air).

However, if it instead had IT (Diffuse; Swarm) I could see it being able to spread out to it's maximum radius while still being stuck at the glued spot, but bein able to pivot around its stuck spot.

So yeah, as per RAW as far as I can tell, that was a really good play from the wizard player!
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Old 07-25-2023, 11:04 AM   #7
Varyon
 
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Default Re: [Magic] [Powers] Help with resistance rolls when target is missing an attribute

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
I love the replies. I am truly torn between the two offered solutions:

mlangsdorf's
and Varyon's

Especially because in the monster's notes in the adventure it has a choke/strangle attack which uses ST but the notes specify to use it's HP stat instead of ST for those attacks.

Until I get a satisfactory answer, I'll use one of the two above.
However, is there a RAW answer?
¿Por qué no los dos? You could allow it to roll against HP to be able to move across the Glued area, but on a success it has to sacrifice some HP to do so. It's like an ST roll to remove a barbed spear from your chest - a successful roll removes it so you no longer have to deal with a spear sticking out of your chest, but you wind up injuring yourself in the process (to the tune of half the injury the spear made going in).
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Old 07-26-2023, 04:06 AM   #8
mirtexxan
 
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Default Re: [Magic] [Powers] Help with resistance rolls when target is missing an attribute

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
¿Por qué no los dos? You could allow it to roll against HP to be able to move across the Glued area, but on a success it has to sacrifice some HP to do so. It's like an ST roll to remove a barbed spear from your chest - a successful roll removes it so you no longer have to deal with a spear sticking out of your chest, but you wind up injuring yourself in the process (to the tune of half the injury the spear made going in).
Greate solution. I will implement it in my DF games!
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Old 07-26-2023, 04:54 AM   #9
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Default Re: [Magic] [Powers] Help with resistance rolls when target is missing an attribute

Quote:
Originally Posted by mirtexxan View Post
Greate solution. I will implement it in my DF games!
Ditto!
Tho, for the last incident, I just went with using HP for ST.
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