Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > Roleplaying in General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-18-2018, 07:57 AM   #381
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ky´v, Ukraine
Default Re: Exotic Governmental/Legal Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ůorkell View Post
Uh, isn't this roughly the way the US Senate and House were set up?
AFAIK their setup was completely partyless. Parties came later as a loophole and I'm not sure if there's any constitutional support for them at all.
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2018, 08:18 AM   #382
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Exotic Governmental/Legal Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
AFAIK their setup was completely partyless. Parties came later as a loophole and I'm not sure if there's any constitutional support for them at all.
Freedom of association covers it.
David Johnston2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2018, 08:18 AM   #383
Bruno
 
Bruno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Default Re: Exotic Governmental/Legal Systems

As a non-American I'm not an expert, but both their houses are geographically based - but they're based on different geographical boundaries. I believe.

The Canadian parlimentary system was set up somewhat along these lines, with the House of Commons being geographical, and the Senators being appointed for life by the current Prime Minister (although with traditional emphasis on equal geographic representation in the Senate). This results in the Senate having a bias to the previous PMs party at the beginning of a new government, and a bias to the current PMs party after a few terms.

But now the House of Commons is geographic but dominated by party lines, and our Senate is losing party affiliations; no organizational structures survives centuries without change.
__________________
All about Size Modifier; Unified Hit Location Table
A Wiki for my F2F Group
A neglected GURPS blog
Bruno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2018, 08:25 AM   #384
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ky´v, Ukraine
Default Re: Exotic Governmental/Legal Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Freedom of association covers it.
In the same way as jury nullification is covered by anti-double-jeopardy protection and protection of juries from being arbitrarily punished for their decision. I.e. by indirect consequence rather than as part of the original blueprint of the government in the canonical text. Right?
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2018, 08:37 AM   #385
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: Exotic Governmental/Legal Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
As a non-American I'm not an expert, but both their houses are geographically based - but they're based on different geographical boundaries. I believe.

Yes, both houses are based on geography: every congressman has a state they belong to, and people from outside that state have next to no say in determining who that person is (other than aid in campaigning).



House representatives belong to specific areas within the state. For example, Paul Ryan is from Wisconsin, but he's especially from the area south east of Milwakee. The voters in Milwakee itself don't get to vote for him, they voted in Gwen Moore. The exact alignments of these districts is up to the state legislatures.



Senators represent an entire state, and there are only two per state. In Wisconsin that's Ron Johnson and Tammy Baldwin. Everyone in the state got to vote for or against both of these senators. So senators are still localized, but they are less localized than representatives.



In any case, Both houses are very similar in terms of power. They were designed to be out of sync with each other and be split on issues that are very close. The senate has a touch more power, if only because they run conformation hearings.



In contrast, the system proposed has two houses with very different powers intentionally separated instead of mirrored.
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2018, 10:44 AM   #386
sjard
Stick in the Mud
 
sjard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Rural Utah
Default Re: Exotic Governmental/Legal Systems

<Moderator>
A reminder to keep current, real world, politics to someplace else. They are a very good way to get a thread shut down.

Thank you.
</Moderator>
__________________
MIB #1457
sjard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2018, 01:04 PM   #387
jason taylor
 
jason taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: Exotic Governmental/Legal Systems

Each candidate drinks a half-pint of vodka and smashes it into the fireplace. If any candidates are still standing process is repeated. So on ad-infintum until there is only one candidate. He is granted absolute power. With the sole caveat that he has to drink a half-pint of vodka before each decree.
__________________
"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison
jason taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2018, 01:09 PM   #388
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: Exotic Governmental/Legal Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
In the same way as jury nullification is covered by anti-double-jeopardy protection and protection of juries from being arbitrarily punished for their decision. I.e. by indirect consequence rather than as part of the original blueprint of the government in the canonical text. Right?
Parties have no formal role or standing in the US government. The people writing the US Constitution were certainly aware they existed but opted not to say anything about them in the text. This is sometimes interpreted as an endorsement, or a condemnation, depending on one's view, but given that parties already existed I don't think you can call them a *consequence*.

I suspect most of them felt it was more an unrelated side issue - that parties weren't necessary for their ideas to work but weren't a problem either.
__________________
--
MA Lloyd
malloyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2018, 01:17 PM   #389
jason taylor
 
jason taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: Exotic Governmental/Legal Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
Parties have no formal role or standing in the US government. The people writing the US Constitution were certainly aware they existed but opted not to say anything about them in the text. This is sometimes interpreted as an endorsement, or a condemnation, depending on one's view, but given that parties already existed I don't think you can call them a *consequence*.

I suspect most of them felt it was more an unrelated side issue - that parties weren't necessary for their ideas to work but weren't a problem either.
Parties are in a sense a normal part of republican politics and not unknown in Imperial or Monarchial politics either. A massive political machine that is also an ideologically based faction is perhaps a peculiarity but perhaps not so much as might appear. Politics in America could however have been primarily kin-based or occupationally based just as easily, some regimes have stressed that, and an imaginary state might do so as well. Of course all those different factors play in (Traveller: First In gives an overview of how factions of a culture might congeal).
__________________
"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison
jason taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2018, 01:17 PM   #390
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: Exotic Governmental/Legal Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
Each candidate drinks a half-pint of vodka and smashes it into the fireplace. If any candidates are still standing process is repeated.
So if there are multiple candidates still standing but none of them can hit the fireplace anymore, does it go to a runoff tomorrow night?

I can almost see this system evolving though. There are after all those traces of Indoeuropean traditions of considering any important issue at two councils, one sober and one drunk.
__________________
--
MA Lloyd
malloyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.